OT: Four in every five sets of traffic lights should be removed, report claims

[The Natural Philosopher]

I just wondered if people agree or not. I have to say I do.

[NY]

Depends how busy the junction is. Traffic lights have the advantage that everyone is guaranteed a turn at getting out, whereas an abnormally large flow of traffic from one direction can prevent anyone else getting out. Traffic lights also have the advantage that you may not have to slow down as much if you have a green light.

The best of both worlds is a roundabout which has lights at peak periods only. It is infuriating to sit at lights late at night when there is no other car at the roundabout, simply because the time switch is giving each entry its turn at entering.

What I do not agree with is using junctions where no-one has defined priority over anyone else: as you approach a junction it must always be possible to tell whether or not you have priority over everyone else, either because of lights or because of your position on the road (priority from right rule on roundabout) or because of signs and white lines (major/minor roads at cross roads). Simply turning off traffic lights without instead assigning some sort of priority rules would be a nightmare because everyone would have to stop and then work out who was going to go next.

[DerbyBorn]

I just wish people would get their foot down and move off sharply when they get a green. I also wish they then wouldn't stop at the next junction where despite having right of way, they want to collect a wave by letting someone out of a minor road whilst my arse end is still in the main junction.

[Nightjar]

They appear to be advocating replacing them with shared space schemes, which I think are a ridiculous idea, particularly if they are hoping to improve traffic flow.

[Jonno]

The Natural Philosopher scribbled

Ahhh. The poor old turnip is lonely again. Needs a bit of attention. Let's see how he manages to blame traffic lights on socialists.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , DerbyBorn writes

Also that they avoid allowing wide gaps to develop such that the adaptive light controls assume there are no further cars to cross and initiate a change.

[Tim Lamb]

So what is a *shared space scheme*?

I came across something strange on Guernsey: AFAIR priority was assigned in order of arrival. Long while ago now.

This system would fail where vehicle numbers made it difficult to know who was first.

>

[Andy Burns]

No kerbs separating paths and roads, no white lines, no give way, no signs, no traffic lights, cars/bikes/pedestrians all have equal priority

[newshound]

The one in Gloucester doesn't seem to work badly; but the vehicle density where it is located is *very* low.

[Tim Streater]

Bumper cars, probably.

That's the shitty system, the Yanks have with their 4-way stops. Very low throughput.

[newshound]

+1. Removing the traffic lights and reverting to a mini roundabout made a huge improvement in the centre of my very small market town, but it is a funny junction. In general I would say stick with well designed traffic lights, especially with good sensors and smart phased algorithms when there are several sets close together.

[fred]

In Spain traffic light are re-set at night to give a flashing amber meaning you can proceed with caution

[spuorgelgoog]

It's a place where bicyclists and blind people have an equal chance of bein g randomly knocked down by cars, in contradistinction to the traffic light scheme where cars have to wait for a green light before aiming for the bicy clists, and blind people have proper pavements to walk on separated by kerb s from the traffic.

Owain

[Nightjar]

As the name suggests, the highway is shared by all traffic equally, with no separation between pedestrians, cyclists, cars and lorries.

I suspect that any successes the system claims is due to drivers being so confused by it that they drive slowly. That has happened with other new schemes and the benefits have usually disappeared as people get more familiar with them.

One example is marking dangerous junctions with red tarmac. Very effective when it was rare and only applied to the really dangerous ones. I doubt many motorists even notice red tarmac these days.

[Brian Gaff]

Well, it was discussed on a phone in on lbc the other night, and my take is, yes, at junctions unless there are crossings there. Arguably, the crossing points should be offset in any case and have lights controlling them. The problem at the moment in many built up areas is that you get one set of lights at the junction then another one just down the road at the crossing. Its bonkers. Only pedestrians and cyclists really need protection, most other road junctions could be designed so the traffic is safe as long as everyone uses common sense. I know there is no such thing, but after a few bent motors, people might actually learn some.

So yes on junctions, but you need to protect the vulnerable people in some way, ie those crossing and those cycling. Brian

[Chris B]

One of the biggest (quite controversial) here

[Fredxxx]

It's not exactly rocket science to model traffic flow and ensure the lights are timed for minimum inconvenience.

You mean like mini-roundabouts?

It's these traffic light on these minor junctions that causes all the problems. As a result a side-junction has the same right to a piece of road as a main road, creating rat-runs along roads never intended to carry traffic.

There is a road not far from me that was "upgraded". There are now 6 sets of lights along this road. In parallel is another minor road with no traffic lights. I now uses the one without the new plethora of lights.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I d9nt th8nk that was the intention. White lines exist at all traffic lights anyway and the priorities are clearly defined in teh highway code.

However '4 ways stop streets' exist in the USA and elsewhere without undue bad effects,.

[The Natural Philosopher]

its wher pedestrians cars and cyclists share a common space. It was found that with pedestrians and cyclists wandering down the middle of the road, motorists tended to slow down and behave reasonably.

Any commonly agreed priority system works. Anarchy is what doesn't work.

[Mike Barnes]

As a reasonably frequent visitor to Poynton I think it works pretty well. However the block paving isn't standing the test of time.