OT: cheapest way to get 17yo on the road

[tony sayer]

U... Please Guv, when does it become "unwired"?........

[Andrew Gabriel]

Rightly so - too powerful for someone with no experience to understand how to control, too flashy for someone of that age to drive only at a level within their limited skillset (even if they had any concept of their limitations, which they won't), so the risk of a significant payout is about as high as it could be, and the risk of someone's injury or death.

The risks are somewhat reduced (although not proportionally) if they stick with something like a 1.2l bog-standard hatchback, not tarted up in any way, until they've developed some reasonable driving skills (and I don't mean passed the test - that's just a start - learning to drive continues for years after that).

Some years ago, at work we had a conversation between colleagues when one of their kids announced he was going to get a bike, and the father was very worried what that might lead to. There was probably no realistic way to stop him, but we thought at least if he went into it with some understanding of how fragile humans are and how easily live is lost (which is something teenagers have no concept of at all), he might be more sensible. I found a web site which was full of motor accident photos, no guts spared, mostly teenagers of course, and his father went through some of them with him. A couple of years later, the kid lost a friend in a typical teenage car crash (which didn't involve him). He said to his dad that the session with the photos had had quite an effect on him, and he thought about it whenever he saw friends showing off in their cars/bikes. So at least with that kid, this probably worked exactly as intended.

Modern western society's obsession with hiding people from the consequences of others' stupid accidents probably goes some way towards building the "I'm indestructable" mentality most teenagers (and many into their 20's and 30's) have.

[robgraham]

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I know it's going OT to pick up on this comment, but why is 'modern western society' any different from other societies? Are you generalising or do you have knowledge of other societies?

There is a thought that there is a 'daft' gene - possibly something to do with getting an adrenaline buzz. It must occur everywhere. I rock,snow and ice climbed for many years and later did sub-aqua - all 'dangerous' sports. I did think of the consequences but mitigated them. Now my late 60's I don't have the strength or the surety to be confident in my mitigation so I have to take even more care.

Certainly fear didn't really occur in younger days - yes we are all indestructable in youth. Rob

[Mark]

Direct Line - One of the best companies at avoiding paying claims.

To the OP: Get your son to pay for it all - that's the cheapest way and he will learn some good life lessons as a result.

[Dave Starling]

I recall that some insurance companies now offer a pay-as-you drive insurance via a black box fitted with gps. IIRC, the system has two rates depending on time the vehicle is driven, i.e after dark would triple the cost. Since its gps I assume it also keeps a tally of max speed driven etc to penalise boy racers.

Might be worth a look and certainly cheaper than paying =A31000 insurance on a 1 litre 15yr old car. If he was prepared to drive low daylight miles in the first year it would be a shrewd way to build up the NCD.

Dave.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Try a really beat up commercial vehicle, and third party only.

Or just phone a broker and ask.

[ARWadsworth]

I recall that some insurance companies now offer a pay-as-you drive insurance via a black box fitted with gps. IIRC, the system has two rates depending on time the vehicle is driven, i.e after dark would triple the cost. Since its gps I assume it also keeps a tally of max speed driven etc to penalise boy racers.

Might be worth a look and certainly cheaper than paying £1000 insurance on a 1 litre 15yr old car. If he was prepared to drive low daylight miles in the first year it would be a shrewd way to build up the NCD.

Dave.

It is mentioned here

[Man at B&Q]

Quotes for SWMBOs car, a 1.4 Diesle Fusion, in a similar situation, on a well known price comparison website varied between =A31k and =A310k, so it definitely pats to shop around.

In the end my existing insurer (Admiral multi-car) were cheapest.

MBQ

[Man at B&Q]

There are also firms that will insure learners by the month. If you think he's going to pass quite quickly, might be worth investigating.

MBQ

[dennis]

IMO there is no requirement to insure a car for a learner.. just get a driving instructor to teach him. It cheaper and he is likely to be a better learner after passing a test, after all passing your test just means you are trusted to learn on your own, not that you can drive.

[Man at B&Q]

[e-mail]...

They say practice makes perfect.

To practice in your own/parents car between lessons you need to be insured.

MBQ

[Mark]

Of course we have no idea what he behaviour would have been had he not been shown these images. He sounds like a sensible and caring youngster.

Personally I think this behaviour is innate. Trying to frighten teenagers off smoking, drugs and alcohol has little effect. It didn't work for me ;-)

Not that education is a bad thing. I don't see how ignorance could be a good protector.

[Kevin Poole]

Another possibility is to buy a Morris Minor. The Owners Club have some sort of special scheme with Footman James that enables young drivers to get cover, and I believe that (unlike most Classic car policies) he will build up No Claims Discount.

If you insure even a cheap modern car, it will start off with no or minimal NCD if it's an extra vehicle, yet it may hit your main van premium if you have to make a claim on your extra policy, even if it's young 'un scraping a parked car.

And you could teach him a bit of basic maintenance on a Moggy.

[Huge]

I wouldn't. MM's are too old to be safe in modern traffic. They don't go, stop or go round corners well enough. And I say this as a huge MM fan who has owned several of them.

I'd be inclined to get a classic Mini, instead.

[Adrian]

Theo Markettos gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Not normally. There's usually a minimum age of 25 for the main driver - and a requirement for another vehicle to be available as the "main car".

[Adrian]

Huge gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Don't be daft.

Apart from being considerably quicker than wagons or many vans, driving something like that will teach him how to drive properly, about momentum and forward planning. Skills for life, an' all.

[Andy Champ]

Look up "fronting".

Then tell him to do the research on the cheapest possible car. You want something you can afford to put on 3rd party only (so when he puts it in a ditch he can't claim, so the insurance company are only scared of the Ferrari he could crash it in to) and the lowest possible group.

His friends (and possibly teachers) will have already done all the work. Probably a Saxo, or a 1.2 Corsa, or such like.

It's good if it has no "street cred" then he won't be tempted to show off. Perhaps a Volvo? (good car to be in when you _do_ crash!)

My son's insurance cost twice what mine did - when he was driving a car with a third of the power. A few years down the track and it's getting much more reasonable.

Andy

[David WE Roberts]

Yeah, right.

No crumple zones, safety cage built around the driver etc. Probably about NCAP -1.

You can't forward plan for some pillock driving into you at high speed apart from getting a car with a fairly recent structural design.

There have been enormous steps forward in car safety since the Moggie was designed.

You only have to look at the width of modern cars compared to classics - there is a lot of extra metal around the occupants. Look at the corner pillars as well - a lot more metal.

Get a 5-10 year old low powered family saloon. A lot safer than the little cars a lot of young people start out in.

[Invisible Man]

OK So a Ferrari is worth a bit. I believe the claims when the car and trailer derailed a train a few years ago totalled £48M. I handled claims for personal injury or dependants after fatals in millions. Unfortunately it doesn't matter how level headed you are until you have a good history insurance is going to cost money. We have a convertible and a sport both 2 litres and costing us about £200 each for fully comp. Our kids pay somewhat more for their basic hatches.

[tony sayer]

In article , Adrian scribeth thus

Having had to drive the van version of the moggy for a couple of years it did me no harm. I didn't come to grief, yes its not a high performance handling car but its fine otherwise!.

And really what's changed about the roads now apart from much more traffic.. generally going a bit slower?....