OT: Blood Tests

[Clive George]

Yes you can.

[Cursitor Doom]

Do you and Plowman specialise in bald assertions?

[Andrew]

On 02/03/2016 16:08, michael adams wrote: .

Well the Japanese did create a demand for microwave ovens and video recorders by creating an affordable supply, when no-one thought a demand existed. And someone estimated the worldwide demand for computers to be about 6 at one point.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Because they mention this is what they've done when in recovery. They are found dead, and those clearing out the place discover it. And so on.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

People attending their first AA meeting are very rarely asked to tell their story and are (hopefully) never forced or cajoled into it. Many wait for a year or more before doing so. Although all AA meetings are autonomous, so vary.

In general, an alcoholic in recovery will be very honest with his peers at such a meeting. There is little point in him trying to con himself or others.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Don't be silly.

[michael adams]

But you yourself had admitted that those in recovery are most likely a very small percentage of the total number of alcoholics.

Again you yourself have admitted that alcoholics are prone to concealment. Which makes estimating the total number of alcoholics even more probematical

Again, anecdotal at best, concerning a few cases among an unknown total of deaths of alcoholics with no real basis in any statistical source. i.e. Even if there are Death Certificates with Alcoholic Poisoning as the cause of death I very much doubt there's an extra column on the right [ Concealed Empties Y/N ]

So much for the well documented research IOW.

michael adams

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[michael adams]

But both of those are examples of potential demand.

Had the potenential demand not already existed, then neither microwave ovens nor computers would ever have taken off. That's the point.

Without potential or latent demand, a supply of microwave ovens and computers would never have become established. There'd have just been a few forgotten prototypes, gathering dust on the shelves of some laboratory or other.

michael adams

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[michael adams]

Example ?

michael adams

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[Dave Plowman (News)]

I doubt you'd grasp it. You are actually rivalling Wodney for being obtuse.

[michael adams]

You've no example in other words.

Because there isn't one.

michael adams

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There is an endless supply of addicts out there. Dave Plowman

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The earth is supplied with water in the form of rain. Regardless of any demand.

Will that do?

[michael adams]

No.

It only constutes a supply in any sense at all because in order to survive at all, the biological systems around us demand a steady supply of water.

Otherwise they'd all die.

If there was no demand for water by plants, then there'd be no photosynthesis, no plants and so notheing for animals to eat. And so no us.

So you've lost on that one too.

This endless supply of addicts clearly fulfils a need among some types of people to help those less fortunate themselves. Which is itself praiseworthy regardless of how successful it is; or what cynics might claim. But thats where the "demand" comes from in this instance, if it can be called that.

And isn't necessarily linked to the tendeancy among professional groups to create work for themselves by overstating problems.

Its just rather unfortunate that you answered my point about *them* by making use of the word "supply" that's all.

michael adams

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[Dave Plowman (News)]

You really do talk bollocks.

Addicts create themselves. You can't become a heroin addict without using heroin. You can certainly question why some become addicted to alcohol etc, while other users don't.

Treatment for addicts arrises out of that addiction - not the other way round. You don't create addicts to supply treatment places. Drug suppliers may well have an interest in creating addicts though.

Would you say it's reasonable to state that every GP in the land has an endless supply of patients? Same sort of thing.

[michael adams]

Oh dear !

It really does look as though I hit a bit of a raw nerve with that one. I wonder why ?

Let's try again

Here's what you wrote

"There is an endless supply of addicts out there."

Now pairs of words such as "supply and demand", and "cause and effect" don't actually exist in nature as do elements such as hydrogen, or iron.

They're inventions of our own, concepts which we apply to natural phenomena of various kinds to try and make sense of the world.

So that basically, if somebody talks of a cause which doesn't have an effect; an effect which doesn't have a cause; a supply which doesn't meet a demand; or a demand which isn't being met by a supply, then basically its pretty obvious that they don't have the faintest idea of what they're talking about. Basically they're using words they don't really understand.

Given which, I can only ask you again. In writing

"There is an endless supply of addicts out there."

which particular demand do you see this particular supply of addicts as meeting ?

michael adams

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[Dave Plowman (News)]

No raw nerves here.

You might have tried reading my reply before posting this.

[Julian Barnes]

Wrong again, shit-for-brains. It's *abusers* that create addicts. Most addicts (70% is the popular figure from prison studies) have suffered some kind of childhood trauma at the hands of some vile scumbag like Greville Janner or Leon Brittan. They drink or take drugs in an attempt to wipe their memories from the horrors of such abuse. You know

*FUCK ALL* about the aetiology of addiction, so stop pretending you know what you're talking about - you don't.

[michael adams]

What makes you think I didn't ?

The only reason I didn't respond to what you wrote is because I didn't want to embarrass you even further. But if you insist

Here's what you wrote

My answer. No I wouldn't say it's reasonable, and no it isn't the same sort of thing at all.

When somebody has an "endless supply" of anything that's normally regarded as a good thing, as something of benefit to them. Even if there's an over-supply the surplus can always be disposed of in some way.

Whereas many GP's in this country are indeed overburdened with heavy caseloads. Which while the equivalent of an endless supply of patients is something no doctor wants.

I'll assume at this point that even you can actually spot the difference ?

Water, and now doctors. You're not really having a lot of luck with all these examples of yours are you ?

Now where were we ?

Oh yes, the stuff you snipped.

Which thanks to the magic of good ol' copy n'paste are all here again for you to have another go.

Here's what you wrote

"There is an endless supply of addicts out there."

Now pairs of words such as "supply and demand", and "cause and effect" don't actually exist in nature as do elements such as hydrogen, or iron.

They're inventions of our own, concepts which we apply to natural phenomena of various kinds to try and make sense of the world.

So that basically, if somebody talks of a cause which doesn't have an effect; an effect which doesn't have a cause; a supply which doesn't meet a demand; or a demand which isn't being met by a supply, then basically its pretty obvious that they don't have the faintest idea of what they're talking about. Basically they're using words they don't really understand.

Given which, I can only ask you again. In writing

"There is an endless supply of addicts out there."

which particular demand do you see this particular supply of addicts as meeting ?

michael adams

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[charles]

I trhink he was saying that there are too many addicts for the helpers/clinics to cope with.

Just like the patients/doctors you mention above.

[michael adams]

Unfortunately, what you think he was saying, and what he actually said, are two very different things.

michael adams

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