There was a lot of interest last time this was aired but I was left with
a few unanswered questions...
How significant is the fat in processed Pork slices as I find it a very
convenient source of sandwich filling?
How linear is the response to dose levels? A recent test found 4.2 total
(2.4 LDL) for a dose of 20mg. Pre-statins, I had levels of 6.8 and 7.2
total. I would like to drop the dose to 10mg.
I asked how long it takes for the body to return to normal after
stopping medication and was told 2 weeks. I was also told to resume
treatment to double check any noted changes.
If you feel the basic ten minute appointment is too short you can ask
for a longer one. Any GP practice thas does not do that is not doing
their job adeqautely. Without a full medical history no doctor, let
alone amateur "experts" on a NG are in a position to give valid advice.
To emphasise the point it really is extremly foolish to rely on
unqualified advice in the way you are trying to do.
Trouble is that even GPs can leave a lot to be desired on the basics.
One I consulted because I could not see my regular GP in less than
a couple of weeks and I was in real pain, decided that I had pancreatitis
even tho there is a very specific test for that that showed I did not have
that. It turned out that the problem was just gallstones, something that
almost everyone has, tho they mostly don't cause any particular problem.
And even my regular GP is less than ideal too. Since I have had a heart
attack and a stent I see him every 6 months for a routine checkup and
he always checks the pulses in my ankles because there is a clear risk of
the same problem with the leg arterys as what caused the heart attack.
He can never find any pulse in my ankles and that always concerns him.
When I said that to the cardiologist, he pointed out that some people
have arterys quite deep in the ankles and they don't have a feelable
pulse there and that the pulse on the top of my feet are fine. When
I told the GP that he had said that, and he checked that for himself,
he still did the same thing on the next 6 monthly visit and I had to
tell him again. Bit of a worry.
When I got some pain in one foot, he decided that it was gout,
even tho it did not have the classic episodic effect that you get
with gout. When I asked him why it could not just be arthritis,
he just said 'yes, it could be'
I've also just recently come across something on our equivalent
of the BBC, in the specialist health program, that one of the
medications that I am on, Clopidigrel, has a very variable
ingestion effect if you eat much grapefruit or limes etc.
I do eat a lot of limes in the lemon and lime marmalade
that I make myself. Neither the GP who has had a heart
attack himself and is on the same medication as me, or
the cardiologist even mentioned that at all.
IMO it makes a lot more sense to use as much information as
is conveniently available than just relying on what one doctor
says, particularly in areas where not all doctors agree.
No idea, but I expect about as bad as any other animal fat.
You could always do a series of experiments on yourself to find out your
personal response to it if your doctor is prepared to cooperate - about
a month should be enough to reach equilibrium.
That data should be in the clinical trials or MSDS for the specific drug
but the dose response behaviour varies wildly with individuals depending
on how good their enzyme metabolism for destroying it is and the amount
of bergommotin they consume from other sources.
You must not consume grapefruit when on statins. see
You might be better off asking sci.chem or med.something or other.
Remember that advice on the Internet is worth at most only what you paid
for it and in some cases considerably less.
Thanks for above. I was warned about grapefruit but not the actual
Somewhere back in my crop spraying days I remember spray can warnings
about *anti-choline esterase*. I still wonder what it meant!
Nothing is ever simple...
J Pharm Sci. 2011 Sep;100(9):3843-53. doi: 10.1002/jps.22586. Epub 2011
Differential effect of grapefruit juice on intestinal absorption of
statins due to inhibition of organic anion transporting polypeptide
Shirasaka Y, Suzuki K, Nakanishi T, Tamai I.
Faculty of Pharmacy, Institute of Medical, Pharmaceutical and Health
Sciences, Kanazawa University, Kakuma-machi, Kanazawa 920-1192, Japan.
The purpose of this study is to examine the contributions of organic
anion transporting polypeptide (Oatp) and/or P-glycoprotein (P-gp) to
grapefruit juice (GFJ) interaction with two statins, pravastatin and
pitavastatin, which undergo negligible metabolism in rats. The two
statins were found to be substrates of both Oatp1a5 and Oatp2b1, whereas
pitavastatin, but not pravastatin, was a substrate of P-gp. The plasma
concentration of pravastatin after oral administration was significantly
decreased by GFJ and naringin, whereas that of pitavastatin was
significantly increased. Naringin inhibited Oatp1a5- and
Oatp2b1-mediated uptake of pravastatin and Oatp1a5-mediated, but not
Oatp2b1-mediated, uptake of pitavastatin. Naringin also inhibited
P-gp-mediated transport of pitavastatin. These results suggested that
the decrease of pravastatin absorption in the presence of GFJ is due to
the inhibitory effect of naringin on Oatp, whereas the increase of
pitavastatin is due to the inhibition of P-gp. These observations are
consistent with the results of in situ absorption studies. In
conclusion, Oatp and/or P-gp contribute to the intestinal absorption of
statins, and the differential effect of GFJ on pravastatin and
pitavastatin absorption is at least partly accounted for by the
different inhibitory effects of naringin on these transporters.
There are another 55 papers indexed on PubMed for grapefruit and statin.
I believe there may be other issues as well. I rather liked that this
one varied by statin.
I hope you are joking...
The short version is "Beware of Nerve Gas". PPE is essential.
They are targeted specifically at insect nervous systems but would do
you no good at all if you got contaminated with them. Pinpoint pupils is
the first symptom of poisoning and requires urgent treatment.
Insecticide researchers stumbled across a new class of them. ICI's
Amiton aka VG was one of the first but was too toxic for safe use.
The very nasty area denial agent VX was a military research derivative
and the Germans in WWII were convinced that the allies had similar nerve
agents to Tabun and Sarin by the secrecy surrounding DDT.
Ones used as insecticides tended to be rapidly degraded in the
environment. Malathion and dimethoate among the more common ones.
Malathion has relatively low human toxicity for a nerve agent.
Too many insects are immune to them now so neonicotinoids are the new
flavour of the day. they are getting a bad rap for harming bees although
it is unclear to me if this is fair since many of the crops they are
used on are wind pollenated and do not attract bees!
Not really. Apart from a fully closed cab with active air filtering and
remote sprayer controls, PPE is difficult to achieve.
Direct contact with actives is simple but diluted volatiles find their
way into tractor cabs of my vintage. I'm still here so it can't have
been that bad although I still wonder about long term health effects.
I think Dimethoate was withdrawn years ago which was a pity as it was
about the only useful chemical for Crane Fly larvae. (Dursban).
I am out of touch now as I have stopped arable cropping. I have an idea
that the insecticide is applied to Rape seed so may still be slightly
active at flowering.
Apparently cholesterol is largely created by the liver. Some people are
genetically disposed to create more than is necessary. My liver function
is suspect but an ultrasound check failed to find anything suspicious.
Very hard to convince the medical profession that you don't drink so
cirrhosis is unlikely:-)
I believe there is quite some truth in that.
High cholesterol is often related to inadequate thyroid hormone. To the
extent that high cholesterol was used as an indicator of hypothyroidism
in the days before suitable blood tests were available.
Have no idea whatsoever about the pork slices you eat. At least read the
packet and tell us what they contain!
Almost nothing in medicine is strictly linear - so I would tend to
assume the response is not linear.
You could do worse than go off and look at some papers:
Although _I_ believe that fat in the diet is a relatively small part of
the equation, I do not expect anyone to follow my belief! :-)
I am in the luckier position of having low cholesterol levels so my
reading is more limited.
I've heard the same 10percent-ish thing too.
I went to the surgery for something else and had a
while-you-are-here-we-might-as-well-give-you-a bloodtest which proved
a little high in the cholesterol stakes.
As it happened, it came after a week of unusual over-indulgence in
high-cholesterol stuff so I asked if I could do it again after a more
normal spell. Well, I didn't go normal, I went non-cholesterol. I
spent an incredibly boring fortnight eating and drinking nothing
higher in cholesterol than lettuce, determined to drag the numbers
I had another test.
It was higher.
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