OT: Best place to ask about cars

[Bill]

I'm likely to be forced into pouring the tiny remains of my worldly wealth into some sort of car that's cheap to run. Is there a good place to ask for suggestions?

Basically, I have a £2k pile of rust to trade in plus a huge, worthless because of Gordon Brown, but only 7 year old pile of unreliable electronics on wheels, but have never bought a new car and am horrified by the prices and year 1 depreciation.

I'm fairly tall, and we have to carry a relative or two in the back more than once every day, and I've sat front and back in a Fiesta (and lots of others) and have bruises on my head to prove it.

The aim is £35 tax, a proper spare wheel and proper wheels with decent pothole proof tyres, 4 doors, decent visibility and headroom. Ideally it shouldn't look stupid outside or in (like the new Fiesta again). I want as few plugs and sockets under the bonnet as poss unless the vehicle comes with proper diagnostics (none seem to). So far only a Nissan Note and Ford Fusion come anywhere close, but new they seem hopelessly overpriced.

I visited 6 showrooms last weekend. Really really depressing.

[geoff]

In message , Bill writes

I'm sure that there are better deals around than the £2k trade in fiasco, look around and don't obsessed with the trade in to the exclusion of more sensible options

never bought a new car? Why change ?

[Clot]

Hmm, you seem to be keen on a new motor despite the cost. Security through warranty? The £35 p.a. tax is a red herring. The difference between £35 and £135 p.a. is small compared to other running costs and depreciation.

The choice of car without the space saver is becoming limited. A few months ago, I had the first puncture that I've had in years. The Focus has a space saving spare and I did find it a bugbear having to keep below 50 mpg on a

150 mile return home. Still, better than my wife's little toy, a Peugeot 206cc that does not have a spare, just a foam spray can (and a spare can!) in the boot!

I've not kept in touch with car prices since Brown failed to save the World, but under normal circumstances, from the position you have outlined, I would be thinking a 3 year old car. My Focus is now almost 8 years old which I purchased at 5 years old, still does over 50 mpg (diesel) and has headroom and space and no rot with 152k on the clock. I expect to take it to at least

200k before replacement. I previously have had 2 Fiestas (diesel) that I took to over 200k. The Focus also has significant legroom in the front as well as good access. My 85 yo father of limited mobility can get in, whereas when my sister or brother with their motors arrive to take him out, they use his Merc. A series due to access.

For various reasons in 2001, I bought my wife an N reg. Peugeot 306 (petrol) which is still running fine for my son and has had only trivial wear replacements, (90k+). The bodyshell is still fine, though I noticed recently that he has not been cleaning the underside of the bonnet with consequent ironworm consumption at the seams.

Just thoughts. I hope it helps.

Good luck.

C.

[Adrian]

Bill gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

There's no such thing.

There's umpteen uk.cars.* groups, but a lot of us there read here, too.

So don't buy new...

An irrelevance, compared to fuel/insurance/depreciation

Have you considered not hitting things? The only flats I've had in probably the last twenty years have been when I've hit kerbs for various reasons (mainly inattention...)

Again, that tends to point away from a new or recent car. The ever- growing emphasis on secondary (survivability) crash safety results in significantly worse primary (avoidance) safety - not least because pillars and blind spots get ever larger.

You want to be looking at classics, then. Nothing under c.15-20yo has anything but a massive wodge of electronics.

They all do. eOBD diagnostics standard compliance has been a legal requirement for years. Of course, that doesn't FULLY cover everything, just the "lowest common denominator", but - tbh - it's an irrelevance anyway.

To what? Terminal boredom?

Yep, new cars are. And you're throwing most of that straight down the drain. Bear in mind, too, that for the next few years there's going to be a huge glut of used 2009 smaller cars on the market - as all the people who've scrappaged now sell them on. That's only going to do one thing to resale values, too.

Seriously - with your requirements, and given that you're obviously a hands-on kinda person (by the fact your first thought of a place to ask was here), I'd be considering getting a very good condition late '80s car, accept that the cost-per-mile is going to be a bit higher, but you'll save a fortune in depreciation, and put the small amount of time and effort into keeping it solid.

Umm... Can't think why I thought of that as a route to go...

[Dave Liquorice]

Agreed the difference between =A335 and =A3200 is aound 160l (35 gallons= ) of fuel, 2 to 4 tank fulls depending on the size of the tank or 1000 to 2000 miles. If that is a significant part of the total annual mileage then it's probably cheaper to use taxis or hire as required.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Nothing has changed there. New car depreciation varies from poor to dreadful compared to two year old depreciation.

Well, you need to visit a few showrooms and see what suits you.

Best to look at overall running costs since the VED is such a tiny part of it.

How often do you have punctures? I can't remember my last one.

All that can be decided by a visit to the showroom.

All cars have loads of electronics these days. That's why they use so little fuel compared to years ago - and can do many thousands of miles without a service. Without those electronics you'd be back to visiting the garage over twice as often. And paying out for more in the way of consumables. As regards diagnostics this is down to the poor standard of mechanics these days. Many haven't caught up. But then many wouldn't know what to do with an old car either...

Think like many you want the earth for the cost of an asteroid. The only way to do this is to buy secondhand.

[Tim Lamb]

Yebbut, you only get 35 tax if the engine does not push out much carbon so there is a saving for each mile travelled as well.

We have just traded a Focus 1.8TDi for a Fiesta 1.6 TDCi without noticing much effect on performance although I haven't driven it fully loaded yet. There is about 10" height difference between us so I am going to have to learn how to lower the seat.

The shape does remind one of a crumpled juice carton:-)

regards

[The Natural Philosopher]

Best deals are something like an obscure unfashionable diesel. Like a 3 years old Skoda. Then run it into the ground. Two friends have these. Just keep going. 150k on the clock on the big estate, still looks like new.

Best car for depreciation was my land rover defender, and virtually no problems apart from the usual minor irritations. Chewed the diesel, but never put new tyres on it in 50,000 miles, and service costs were surprisingly low.

Worst value is a small petrol car. High service costs, wear out especially tyres and brakes, and although the petrol cost is low, if you are doing the mileage they are crap to drive long distances, and if you are not the maintenance, tax, insurance and service costs are just as bad if not worse than something bigger and more reliable.

[Mr Benn]

There are some helpful people in uk.rec.driving.

Don't whatever you do ask in uk.rec.cycling as you'll get lynched!

[Clot]

:) It is an active group with should we say " a range of views"?

[Bill]

Thanks for all the replies. I had 2 old Defenders. Great cars, especially the lever and padlock bonnet catch. Can't get better than that. The clutch became too much for my ageing left knee, though. I do also have the auto Disco for towing the boat across fields, but really do need something smaller for local mileage, and one relative can't climb up into the back. There's only so many times I can get away with telling her the Queen Mother could do it at age 100.

I suppose the £35 tax shouldn't influence too much, but it's the direction of taxation and these utterly incompetent gift-of-the-grab merchants that worries me.

I've had 3 Carlton/Omega estates from when I ran a business with a lot of long distance load carrying. The first 2 were changed at 200k and still ran. The current 02 one has just passed 90k. The little spanner lights up, something underneath feels loose and rattles over potholes, the doors are too heavy for my wife to open when we park on an uphill slope, open any window and it's like being inside a low-frequency organ pipe etc etc. The main agent refuses to hear the rattle, and before he will connect his diagnoser again says he must replace the exhaust. Price? £1700 inc VAT. Many, many hundreds already spent. Small one-man local garage spluttered into his coffee, welded up small exhaust leak and applied his 2 diagnostic tools. The cheap one gave a stupid answer, the expensive (3k) one said no fault found. My first diagnoser from China said inconsistent throttle readings, but died on day 2 and was returned. Second one from Hong Kong didn't work at all. I might try to repair this once I find a magnifying glass strong enough to read the numbers on the chips.

Don't talk to me about diagnostics in cars. The previous Omega had 2 diagnoser events at the main agent. In neither case did the result make any sense to them. They charge £75 just to connect it. Probably plus VAT. Why do cars display all sorts of duplicate info that's also there on the speedo etc, yet not have a button to display sensor outputs etc.?

In the 60's my petrol Mk1 Cortina Estate would take an 8x4 sheet of ply and did 40mpg. The Omega did bring a shed home from B&Q, but only does about 26 (auto diesel Disco averages 28-29).

Maybe a bigger S/H diesel is the way to go.

I've had 2 punctures, nails, in the last year, plus one occasion when I noticed serious tyre wear and was a long way from home. We've recently been doing a lot of parking in the local hospital, which involves bumping up onto kerbs. The potholes here are awful, and the council spends money instead on the automatic illuminating "Slow Down" signs. Many of them placed under trees so the solar panels don't work when the leaves appear.

Enough waffle. Thanks everyone.

[The Natural Philosopher]

My BIL gets about 58mpg from his diesel skoda. Long runs, 80mph.

the key is light weight and decent aero.

WE get about 33mpg out of the auto Freelander, FWIW. BMW era one. Really nice general purpose car with good load carrying and some off road. manual box is rated at 36-40mpg. Hint. You can drive the auto almost as a manual ;-)

theers a lot of very ceent 1600-2liters diesel engines out there. One of those in an unfashionable body shape, is what you want. No VAG, no Ford..something obscure and eastern Europe or far east.

What else do you expect in a culture that is, from the top down, all about the appearance of doing something to solve a problem, usually at great expense and involving as many people as possible, rather than actually solving the problem.

Oh for the days when highway ENGINEERS went around, and gave budget to a little junction remodelling, a bit of paint on te road, and solved an accident black spot, rather than bureaucrats chicaning, speed camming and humping a road in order to create a traffic jam on the next one along?

[Clive George]

You do know that Skoda is VAG, don't you?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Not in the name it aint: I know, but the car buying public don't. ;-)

hence a Skoda loses value twice as fast as a VW, or Audi.

GREAT S/H value. BUT you wont get that value back by reselling. Have to drive them to scrap.

[Shimshams]

One of the best places to ask about cars is the forum (accessed via the "back room" button) at

He's the motoring correspondent of the Telegraph and the site has been running for years with some very knowledgeable people on it.

No connection except I visit it often.