OT: A mouldy death in Rochdale

[Cursitor Doom]

LOL. Perhaps pointing out the obvious doesn't suit *your* loony-lefty viewpoint, perhaps?

[Andrew Gabriel]

That does look like drying clothes on the radiator. A lesser possibility would be the radiator doesn't work or is not switched on, and generates a cold spot behind it, but it's probably not a good enough thermal insulator for that to be likely.

That could be penetrating moisture through the door or frame. A corner shop near me was renovated, and there was a lovely dry rot infestation just under the floor inside the front door, probably due to a stream of customers coming in with wet feet in the rain over the years.

Not enough info to assign blame. They could be particularly vulnerable to condensation if they have no thermal insulation. If anyone knows the address, it might be interesting to lookup the EPC, which I believe rented property all needs. (Not that I have much faith in an EPC, but it might still shed some light.)

[Chris Hogg]

+1

Broadly two aspects: structural, such as rising or penetrating damp, poor thermal insulation, inherently poor ventilation etc. and lifestyle such as drying laundry indoors, using portable gas heaters, not making use of existing ventilation etc.

Whatever the structural problems, I imagine running a dehumidifier and opening a few windows occasionally would help, *IF* they can afford to do it, which they probably can't.

[Jim Stewart ...]

then compensation

[Jim Stewart ...]

because they are scum of the earth I had to deal with some of them for years .....

[Tim Lamb]

In message [e-mail], Chris Hogg [e-mail] writes

All of those! My wife inherited a ground floor 2 bed flat. Built mid '60's, cavity walls, ducted air from storage unit. Upper levels of North facing walls readily showed black mould spots. Initially, re-papering over 3mm polystyrene sheet and single person occupancy held this at bay. Double glazing and gas central heating was installed without impact.

The flat was then let through an agent who took on a migrant family with two school age children. Very quickly mould became a source of complaint.

Cavity insulation was in the gift of the property management and not supported. The basic problem was moisture introduced by the tenants who showered every day, dried washing indoors on hangers and kept the windows firmly shut.

Remedial measures adopted:- Condensing washer drier, cooker extract fan, bathroom heat recovery extract, central heat recovery system using the existing ductwork.

Conclusion? I don't know as we sold the flat at the first opportunity!

[RJH]

A level of sheer ignorance that might astound even you one day.

If you take the time to read the coroner's report, you'll find, amongst other things, the home 'was not equipped for normal day-to-day living activities, which led to excess damp and condensation'.

It wasn't a council flat.

Build and manage them properly in the first place? Yep.

[Chris Hogg]

What is it with Rochdale anyway? Back in the summer we had all that stuff about gangs of men trafficking and raping vulnerable teenage girls, and now this poor little boy dies because of an unhealthy domestic environment.

It sounds like Rochdale is the pits! Why hasn't Burnham got a grip on it all?

[RJH]

+1.

I've mananged thousands of homes in the social sector, and IME of that time (about 30 years ago) it was a perfect storm of overcrowding, poverty, building maintenance, design and construction, and management. Tackling any one of those causes would often sort out the problem to an extent.

[Theo]

One of the common issues with rental properties is they tend to come with a washing machine as standard, but no drying facilities nor space for a tumble dryer. Even if you have somewhere to dry outside, that's no good in the autumn/winter when it's raining often. Also many people tend to work fixed hours, so putting out and bringing in washing according to the weather isn't feasible if you're at work.

There might be an 'airing cupboard' with some hot water pipes, which dries the clothes but just puts the moisture into the air, ready to condense on the nearest cold, poorly-insulated, surface. Washer driers exist but are relatively rare.

Basically much of today's housing stock isn't fit for purpose where moisture control is concerned.

(there is a secondary issue of the tenant being able to afford to use the tools they're provided with, but many people can afford it if they have them)

Sounds like a good approach. Attack all the generators of moisture at source.

Theo

[Scott]

Someone wrote to the local paper to complain that her neighbour's kitchen sink was filthy and as her neigbour was vulnerable the Council should do something about it. I wrote the following week to say this woman could perhaps spend her time more usefully by offering to assist her neighbour rather than sending silly letters to a newspaper.

[SH]

One common source of moisture is from breathing people.... due to the water content of exhaled breath and from perspiration.

windows in bedrooms that have been occupied overnight have significantly more window condensation than in other bedrooms that were unoccupied overnight.

So are you suggesting we should also attack the bed occupants :-))

Its all very well putting in extractor fans for cokkers, showers and bathrooms and a condensing dryer but you still have natural bodily processes contributing to the house humidity level.

So either sleep with the windows open and turn up the expensive heating or shiver

or put in mechanical heat recovery ventilation which is not too technically diffult if you have an empty loft above the bedrooms and you can afford it

[Tim Lamb]

Small kitchen but generous living room and bedrooms.

Ok. for open fire heating.

Occupant expectations may be relevant. The original family were from Portugal and, as I have been reminded, showered twice per day.

Hmm. The central heat recovery fan was a bit noisy. The bathroom/kitchen extracts would have been a requirement under current building regs.

[soup]

Pretty broad brush there Jim.

[George Miles (dicegeorge]

I often see people blocking up the air vents with cloth to stop the draughts and save heat. Hence condensation and mould.

Humidity controlled fans are one weapon to use.

Next door flat to me was converted a long time ago and has no air vents in kitchen or bedroom and complaints of mould. I've never seen her put washing outside, or open a window.

I lent her a dehumidifier but she says its too expensive to run.

Water input from breathing, washing people and clothes, and cooking.

[g]

[Jim Stewart ...]

never heard from the good ones

[soup]

Oh so "Jim" has only heard from the "scum of the earth" so ALL council tenants are "scum of the earth".

Did you ever stop to think you were 'working' with only scummy people

[Owain Lastname]

When you hear/see the state some tenants keep their houses in.

I had to get the council out a few months ago to pick up their tenant's dog's mess.

Owain

[Andrew Gabriel]

Reminds me of childhood cold winters when we were all going somewhere in the car. About 10 seconds after all the family got in, all the windows would mist up. Dad would say, "Everyone stop breathing!".

Andrew

[Pamela]

It would be useful techical background if you are able to locate the damp report for the "Ilminster" block of flats in the "Freehold Estate" in Rochdale.

My attempt at using the database came to nothing.