OT A bit of advice please

[Bill]

In message , Andrew writes

Yet again I feel bound to say that I believe this is nonsense.

Consumption of a petrol car on very short trips is astronomical compared with diesel. I've provided figures in the past, but basically about 8:35 ratio in favour of diesel based on my actual records, or 8:20 where the diesel car was the heavier vehicle. If you think about a Discovery/ Range Rover type vehicle the nominal average ratio is about 16:25, but the "full choke" needs of a petrol engine doing a lot of short trips brings the 16 down to nearer the 8 mentioned earlier.

I can only afford old vehicles, though, but I understand from friends that the need to do an occasional quick burn-up down the motorway with the more recent ones is not that onerous. The low down torque is what I particularly like.

Again, how long will it be before the fashionable view swings to realise that most particulate emissions are from tyres and brakes, and that battery cars may be heavier.

How did we let the traditional stiff upper lip and research-based decisions give way to fad-based hysteria?

I bought a (used) diesel car yesterday, but it wasn't a Mercedes B-class.

[newshound]

I've only just got rid of a pre-common-rail diesel "main car", prior to that have had (and been very happy with) diesel main cars for ~ 15 years.

One of my kids had awful problems with the DPF on a more modern Pug, I certainly have no plans to get another diesel car (although very happy with the Renault Master van, but that's on an 04 plate).

Several of my high mileage colleagues whose views I respect would not dream of shifting from Mercs, though.

[newshound]

I think that is the "safe" option. Might depend a bit on where you live and drive, though.

[Robert]

The point of lease PCH compared to PCP (purchase) is that the vehicle is handed back, there is no purchase option. So no risk associated with depreciation.

[Pete Zahut]

It happens that DerbyBorn formulated :

I've got a non-hybrid Lexus RX300 but it's interesting to read on the Lexus Owners Club Forum of the experiences of the hybrid owners. Lexus/Toyota produce some of the best hybrid technology around and it's very reliable. There are many Toyota Prius taxis knocking around with mileage in the region of 250-350k and even above that are still on the original batteries and still going strong.

It also appears to be incredibly rare for a whole battery pack to go faulty. Individual cells can be replaced quite easily and without the need to go to main dealers - you can either DIY or there are independent hybrid battery specialists out there.

Hybrids appear to be great for lots of stop-start, low speed, town driving where they happily run in 'milk float mode' and the traction battery does most of the work up to about 30mph. Once you get much above that or do motorway speeds/mileages then they become ordinary petrol-driven cars that are lugging around extra weight in the form of the battery pack.

Personally I went for a petrol car and had it converted to LPG which really suits the sort of journeys I have to do and I love it, it's very economical and 'greener' than either petrol or diesel, but don't be put off hybrids for fear of battery problems.

[David]

With regards to mechanicals and performance etc. a diesel should be fine as long as (as others have said) you do enough slightly longer runs to clear the particulate filter now and then.

On most modern diesels you can also run a service clean standing on your drive but that could be neighbour unfriendly.

Again as others have said, the main risk is the recent trend to demonise diesels for apparently political ends.

Personally I would put engine choice (and possibly trim level) down a notch in the priorities and look mainly for a good value car which you are comfortable in. If you hunt for a rare model then you may find yourself being pushed towards a poor vehicle because it is the best available.

In the great scheme of things you shouldn't really notice any difference between a petrol and a diesel model until you get to the garage and have to remember which pump you need.

If you have to drive through any of the big city congestion zones, though, your wallet will be savaged.

We have a Euro 4 diesel 4 x 4 to tow our large caravan, but I've owned diesels in the past which were normal saloon cars and been very pleased.

Cheers

Dave R

[Andy Burns]

Modern diesels don't like having only short journeys, no chance to burn the soot out of the particulate filter, plus there's a general downer on diesels, so regardless of how good my last two cars have been engine-wise, I'd think twice on another diesel now.

[DerbyBorn]

Thanks

[ARW]

When we had the petrol Honda Civic (N reg) that would never get above

20MPG on the short runs the gf was doing. I thought the newer petrols were much better.

Give me a rear wheel drive petrol car anyday.

[Tim Streater]

Well it's good for business, ain't it? Demonise diesel now, so everyone buys new petrol or etc cars, then in 10 years time suddenly discover that there's a way to fix it, diesel cars back in.

[Michael Chare]

The local Tesco in Holyhead are selling petrol and diesel at the same price.

[Michael Chare]

But how low. My new diesel car ticks over at a higher rpm than my previous petrol car. I suspect there is not much torque below 1000 rpm as I am quite good at stalling it. OTOH it does 70mph at 2,000 rpm in top gear, unlike my petrol card which would be doing nearly 3,000 rpm at that speed.

[Tim Lamb]

That is interesting. I have seen cars being run a high revs at garages and wondered.

My daughter has a problem with her Nissan Casquoi (spelling?) which goes into *limp home mode* at the least provocation. The DPF was supposed to have been changed when she got it but I suspect the previous owner gulled her.

The handbook says it needs to run at 3000rpm to trigger a cleaning cycled which is a rare event for an auto diesel.

[Bill]

In message , Tim Lamb writes

Some people put the automatic transmission down a gear for town use so that it locks through at lower speeds (for economy).

Presumably this would be the way to force a cleaning cycle when out of town.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not so. Most 'performance' diesels - which includes most cars - produce far more harmful emissions than the lab tests suggest. This has been known for many years. It was the insistence on low CO2 production that was the big mistake and made them even more popular.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Likely a turbo, then. Poor torque until the turbo is spinning.

[Brian Gaff]

As a pedestrian who walks along congested roads, the fumes from Diesels, even new ones seem far worse to me. Brian

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Quite. And that's only the fumes you can smell.

But I'd guess few on here ever walk anywhere in a city.

[charles]

I'm one who does - in central London, too. Perhaps that's why a visit to London is so exhausting.

[newshound]

Fumes apart, I always used to enjoy the walk from Paddington Station through Hyde Park, Green Park, and St James' park to the Institution of Mechanical Engineers.