Hello everyone,
We are looking to build a 3000 sq ft home in Fl. 4-5 bedrooms 3 baths. We are looking at some of the owner builder programs. Does anyone have any advice on cost and how to go about hiring subs, making sure work is done right? About how much would a project like this cost?
Thanks in advance. T. Stevenson
Plenty of help here, but you have provided way too little info for an informative answer. With the info you provided, I would give you a range of $85 to $300 per square foot. If you get really crazy, it could go up to $500 a square foot. How many gold fixtures are you going to use? Did you want imported Italian marble on just the floors or will you want it on the ceiling domes as well?
Single story or three story? On a flat lot or a 45 degree slope? Completely self contained and off the power grid or did you want electric service from the power company?
You get the picture.
My first advice is if you really have no buiilding experience, you will end up in a nightmare. It is going to be very hard to figure out who the good trades are and who the slugs are if you don't have contacts in the industry. It is also hard for a novice to figure out when they are bullshitting you. Of course hiring a general contractor can be a crap shoot too but it is only one roll of the dice verses a roll for each trade you hire. One bad trade can turn a fairly smooth project into that nightmare I was talking about if you don't get him out of there quickly.
The good news is there are a lot of trades out of work right now, the bad news is the best ones are still working somewhere.
Your question is totally pointless, just as asking how much to buy a car or how much does food in a restaurant cost! Way too many variables involved for a flat answer.
I could tell the OP the Sate Bird!
Okay to be more specific--
One story home on almost 10 acres, with a well and septic, completely flat cleared land. Just a basic house I guess, nothing out of the ordinary. We want quality, energy efficient, but no marble :) Maybe pergo or some type of laminate, tile, nice but not over the top, affordability is important, which is why I am asking. How do I go about planning a good project without going way over budget. We want a nice house and heard horror stories from hiring the wrong GC, so were considering taking it on ourselves. I am wondering are the questions I should be asking and how do I go about finding quality work? Does this answer questions? If I need more specifics please ask, as I don't know the answer without the question
I presume you are 235' above sea level?
Oren
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"Over the next five years, the futures contracts are pointing to losses of around 35 per cent in some areas, such as Florida, California and Las Vegas. There is a good chance that this housing recession will go on for years." - Robert Shiller
Links about prices:
You can't fight all the battles alone. Get some professional help to plan and execute. Consider hiring a qualified architect (see if he has his diplomas on the wall) and plan on being his Gofer and let him settle the arguments with the contractors, subs, etc. Unless you've been in the trades you don't have the knowledge or contacts to find the top talent. Take your time, interview and inspect, chat with anyone connected with the trades, and expect that any budget you think is fair will be off by 30%. Whatever, good luck.
Joe
Taryn, I really can't say what building costs are in Florida. Where I live, a basic new house runs 150 a square foot, but that is here in the frozen north. Prices in Florida SHOULD be lower, but I don't really know.
With all due respect, I think you are over your head in trying to be your own general. You really need to have a pretty good understanding of the building process to serve as your own general and your question leads me to believe that you're not there. Some homeowners have successfully contracted their own homes, but I bet they started out with a better than average knowledge of the process. You have to know quite a bit about every trade to effectively coordinate them, for example: How high do you want to set your house? Where will you bring the utilities in at? What if the framer complains that the slab is out of square? What if the plumber runs a vent in the only spot for an HVAC duct? Oops, you forgot the thermo wire. Was that the electrician's responsibility or the HVAC guys? Are there enough screws in the sheetrock? Who scrapes the floor after the tapers? Do finish floors go in before or after setting doors? Yes it has been done, but it will be a lot of mental anguish. These are just sample questions. Many subs have tunnel vision, and they will always try to do what is easiest for them. The GC is the one with the big picture.
Think of it...instead of finding one good GC, you will have to find a good concrete guy, excavator, framer, electrician, etc. etc. They are all used to working for contractors, not homeowners, so you will be at the bottom of their priority lists. I do this for a living, and running the subs can definitely be the most frustrating part of the job if you get the wrong ones. And not only should you know what each sub does, you should know what they charge. It's all pretty overwhelming for an amateur.
I would focus instead on finding a good contractor. Ask around--word of mouth is the way to go. Good contractors are out there, and the good ones don't advertise in the yellow pages.
about 300,000 basic and about 450,000 if you like yuppified things.
s
Do you have any experience with rural living? Rural homes tend to be smaller and more spread out. A 2500 SF house, a 2000 SF detached garage/shop, another 1500 SF barn for hay and livestock and another shed (fairly near the shop) for equipment storage. An RV pad with a full hookup will be a big attraction when you sell the place. Just don't dump an RV holding tank into a septic tank. You will overload the system. In Florida, you can probably pass on the greenhouse, but a couple of large cold frames would be nice if someone in the family has a green thumb. Don't put all your money into a house, when other buildings will do you more good.
To develop maximum value, you need to plan the estate. Setting is crucial in the country. You need to integrate the buildings with the landscaping and fencing. Don't forget garbage and recycling. Plunk an unmodified urban house down in a rural setting and it will take a lot of work to keep it from looking like a junk yard. Drive around and look for really attractive country places to get some ideas of what is possible.
Pretty much... depending upon what you know.
If you feel a need to inquire here, you might add 50%.
If you don't know what you're doing, I think it's best to buy an existing home. If you want the education, build as much of it as you can yourself, and be prepared to pay, perhaps dearly, for tuition.
If you're 25, that education might be worth it. If you're 55, cut 20 years off your life expectancy, and go ahead and die upon occupancy. The savings in assisted living fess will please your heirs. -----
- gpsman
The going rate is between $75 and $750 per square foot. Dirt work and landscaping extra. Pool extra. To find the exact cost, keep track. At the end, divide the amount spent by the square footage, and you will have a per square foot price.
How much that figure is depends on your management, organizational, and professional skill level.
Steve
It's just like a girl on the stroll. How much is it going to cost?
Depends on what you want.
It's that simple.
I tend to agree with Marson. Unless you have had some experience with other houses or additions you may be in over your head. Of course it depends on your circumstances as well. If you are retired and have a load of time on your hands and you have two or three years to build, then you can brush up on your construction knowledge. If you are working full time and are not living near the site, it would be best to find a good general contractor that you can work with.
The important thing is to have good plans as well as good specifications to go with the plans. You should have all the details worked out BEFORE you begin. I can't tell you how many times I've been asked to wire a kitchen without a kitchen detail. So my work comes to a halt as does the plumber's until the owners figure out where the sink and stove are going to go and what kind of appliances they will be installing. If you want undercabinet lights I would need to know before the wall gets covered up; Not after the cabinets are installed. I recently wired a detached garage with an upstairs apartment. I had to wait six weeks after we signed the contract because the owner did not choose a roofing material ahead of time. I went one day to try and get a head start and it started to rain inside and outside. I had to stop my work because I couldn't let the wiring get wet. When the roof was on I went back to do my work.
First get an architect to draw the plans for your dream house. Ponder it for a few weeks and make notes about changes and additions. Then go back to the architect and have him or her incorporate your changes into the drawings. Keep doing this until you have a clear picture and very specific drawings. Then make up a list of specifications such as all kitchen lights to be such and such brand and model number. Have specifications for each room down to the last detail such as what type of outlets you want installed. Next hire a kitchen designer to draw your dream kitchen. Make sure to have specifications and locations for all major appliances. Don't forget utility closets for the furnace and water heater or will you have a basement? If you are retired you may not want to have too many stairs.
When you have all of these plans and specifications finished and refined to perfection make up five copies of each and give them out to five different contractors for pricing. This way you can compare apples to apples when the contractors come back with their estimates.
I've built one home, remodeled two TOTALLY, and am adding a 1,000 sf casita to my present house.
It ain't rocket surgery. It is a lot of work. Each project has its own peculiarities. Things can and do go wrong.
It's just a poor place to immerse one's self. In particular, the size and scope of the project the OP describes.
He intones that he has little or no experience with subs. If that's the case, then he'll be eaten alive.
It is impossible to learn it all on one project. On my first, I studied it all for about a year, and then went forth. It went pretty well. The others varied. Point is, if someone is intelligent, does a lot of preparatory study, and manages and supervises people well, things should go okay. That is not to say some things turn into a nightmare, but in my experience, unless you go into high end granite work, complicated plumbing, out of the ordinary loads that require engineering, complicated roof structures, or other costly alternatives, the standard construction can be reasonably predictable. It's just when you get into specialties that it can go crazy.
There's a million details to keep straight and all at once. Ordering. Payroll. Quality control. Exhibiting a presence so the subs know you are at least watching what's going on. Calling them on bluffs, overruns, add-ons, and bullshit. Working out change orders on paper. And then there's the financial aspect, whether you're doing an OC construction loan and have to have everything inspected and verified, or you're working out of pocket and it works a little more fluidly. Flow charts, projection spread sheets, graphs, and all kinds of stuff can be done in advance, and that's good. Then there's the reality line that is penciled in as it goes.
After having done it, I would never have a general do the total job, but use a general for the major part, and handle some of the subs myself. Most contractors are okay with this unless they are involved in high end houses and want to make all the money. And those are the ones that will cost an arm and a leg. Everything will be fine in the end except a big hole in your wallet.
On my casita, I have saved money on almost every aspect by shopping subs, and getting good referrals. Only had one doofus on the drywall and ran him off after three hours. I'm doing a portion of the work myself, and saving even more. I buy all materials, except for the framing, trusses, stucco, hvac, rough plumbing and slab. So, if you know how to do stuff, you can do more yourself and know when someone's jerking your chain.
A lot of it depends, too, on how much time you can take off. A lot of people can't take off long enough to build a house. So they have to pay someone to do it.
In this current market, I think I'd just buy a ready built one. I'm sure there's lots of NEW houses in that area which would be a better investment than risking a lot on a first time project of this proportion.
Steve
Hi Taryn,
I think if you have no experience in building, or have familly / friends who are in the trade, then I would avoid trying to do it. I built a home in New York from the ground up, including blasting rock with dynamite. However I had a very good General contractor and an Architect.
The most risk on a build is the site. I.E. no one knows what is under the land. Will it support the weight of the house? Is it swampy? In my case I had to blast, and no one knew the cost of the excavation / foundation. Once the foundation is in, the rest of the house pircing can be predicted pretty accurately.
=46rom your E-mails it looks like you already have a site. Maybe it is familly land or are you thinking of buying it. If you need to buy the land, bring along an expert. Can something really be built there?
If you already have the land, I think your next step is to hire a good architect. A good one will know the cost of a build, and be able to advise you. My Architect charged about $US 100 per hour. So if you are at the exploration stage, you need to keep a tight rein on his work hours. All you need is to see how much you need to spend to see if you can afford what you want and what is possible. This should be no more than maybe one site visit, and maybe another 3 hours or so work. At the end he should be able to sit down with you, and tell you where you are at.
Costs are really difficult to predict, but in general I would say whatever you think + 30%. I would also say about $US 250 a square foot is a "Nicely Equiped" house in car buying parlance. On top of the 250 per sq foot, I would add additional money for basics: Well, Sewage, Electricity, Driverway. My land was very rocky so I had a $US 100,000 charge for all the blasting and rock work, so do not get caught out on the basic infrastucture costs.
Good luck and I hope you achive your dream. Note that houses around you are cheap due to the property crash. However I would also say, construction costs are also cheap. Material costs are lower, construction peoples prices are lower. Also less lag time in trying to get a good carpenter etc.
Warmest regards, Mike.
As others indicate, cost depends on what you want. It also depends on where in Florida you are...SE or SW are going to be a bunch more than Polk County where I am. What I did a dozen years ago...
__________________
Being your own general can save you a bunch. To get to dry in cost me around $25 sq.ft in 1996 (figure about 35% more now). That got me a shell...textured drywall inside and all built in electrical (fans, cans), insert fire place, HW heater, gas, 2 heat pumps, bare concrete block exterior, tar paper on roof. Adding stucco, tile roof, paint inside and out was around another $5.00 sq.ft. Total was at least 40% less than if I had hired a general. Building out the inside also saved a bunch...total overall (inside/outside) would be 1/2 or less than the lowest complete builder bid.
Downside is that you are totally responsible...if something gets screwed up it is your fault and you have to fix/get it fixed.. _________________
SUBS
Finding subs isn't hard...the yellow pages are full of them. Finding good ones is harder. You have to assess them the same way you do anyone else...can you communicate with them?...do they behave and operate in a professional manner?...license and insurance up to date?...stable?...been in business for some years?
Ask around too. No, not your neighbors but at stock houses. Need an electrician? Go to an electrical supply place, skip over the fixture showroom and talk to the order counter guys...they know who is good and who is a flake.
Get several bids from each trade so you get an idea what is a going price. Some - like slab guys - will give you a per square foot price over a phone for labor, you can compute concrete costs by figuring square yards and calling a supplier.
The building inspector will assure that the subs' work meets code. That doesn't mean it is good; however, any sub that has been in business for a few years will probably be doing decent work. Your eyes will tell you too. BTW, never let a sub work on your money...NEVER pay in advance.
Once you have your subs lined up, they will tell you what needs to be done before they can do their thing. For example, the plumber has to do his initial work after footers and foundation/fill but before slab. ________________
SUBS YOU'LL NEED
Concrete - may or may not do site prep and footers. If not, you'll need a tractor man to scrape off the overburden and a layout man to do footers.
Block
Fill
Plumber
Framer
HVAC
Electrician
Roofer
Drywall
Stucco
Painter
Finish carpenter
Others? _______________
RANDOM THOUGHTS
To me, the two most important things in a house are the bottom and the top...the foundation/slab and the roof. Don't skimp on either.
There are two types of slabs generally used in Florida. One incorporates footers - the slab support - in the slab itself by having it thicker around the perimeter. The other involves digging a trench, pouring separate footers then the slab (after adding any needed block and fill as foundation). The slab can be "fiber cement" (has fiberglass) or use steel. I still know very little about concrete but I prefer separate footers and slab. And steel. As many footers as possible, lots of steel. If any fill is needed before pouring the slab accept nothing other than clean fill free of organic material and the fill needs to be VERY well compacted.
Builders here abouts generally use 1/2" (7/16") flakeboard as roof sheathing. I prefer plywood. If you are going to have a tile roof - worthwhile IMO - I'd certainly go to 3/4 ply.
The simplest shape to build is a rectangle. Any inside corners mean a valley on the roof. Valleys are a PITA particularly if there are any trees dropping debris on the roof. Built out wall areas may need a separate little roof- probably cheaper to push the whole wall out.
Florida has hurricanes. Any gable ends provide more wind resistance, IMO, the best Florida roofs are hip roofs. If you are going to have tile, make the pitch 5:12.
Floridians seem to have a love affair with small, two story, roofed entrance porches. With columns yet! Not cheap to build and look preposterous IMO, YMMV.
The roof is about the most expensive thing. Definitely is if you use tile. The cheapest way to frame the roof is with trusses. Trusses means that the attic area in unuseable. The alternative is "stick built". Don't know how much more it would cost but wish I had used it.
Try to plan space sizes to fit material sizes. If you want to save $$, eschew stuff like tray ceilings, crown molding, etc. If you want something other than flat ceilings, consider scissor trusses for the roof. Instead of a horizontal bottom they have a bottom that slopes up (at a lesser pitch than the roof) which can give you a sloping ceiling in parts of the inside.
Windows will cost somewhere between Ouch and MY GAWD! Cheapest are single pane (PGT is a decent brand). If you are located where the climate is pretty mild - neither super hot nor cold - you might consider them. You can mitigate the heat transfer through them with shade outside, drapes inside.
If you get stuck, there are all sorts of people - architects, engineers - that you can pay for hourly info/advice.
Probably between $100 to $200 per square foot.
My advice is to not hire the wrong GC. Hire the right one. Ask for references and then call them. There is a reason us GCs are making big bucks (Bwaaaahaaaahaaaa!).
Seriously, you can't imagine the problems that you will face on a daily basis as your own GC. To make the right decisions, you need to know the answer and it is not something that you will probably know without having experience. I have 35 years of it and I still get hit with questions that I have to research.
It is good to have a GC. They will pull their hair out and let you keep yours.
I just finished a small remodel job. The owner wanted to do some of the work and I did the rest. When we were done, she told me that she will never again do anything other than call me. She said that she never realized how much work went into a simple remodel job and she NEVER WANTS TO GO THROUGH THAT AGAIN! That job was only 2 months long.
Everything I did flowed smoothly while everything she did was a disaster. Now, she had her share of bad luck and sorry subs, but it can happen with good luck and good subs if you don't know what you are doing. You especially need to know how to talk to subs. They aren't your children but they often need to be sweet talked, or yelled at. It just depends. If you yell when you should be talking sweet or vice versa, it can be bad. Very bad. Lawyers bad. You don't want that.
Find a good GC and you can sleep at night while he stays up and does the planning for tomorrow.
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