Off mains toilets?

[Adam Aglionby]

What are the options for providing permanent sanitation to premises without a mains or any sewerage connection?

As far as can see starts at composting toilet, which may not be ideal and requires maintenance :-/

Portaloo /chemical loo , fairly high ongoing maintenance cost.

Septic tank, capital cost and needs discharge area and relevant permissions and of course and ongoing maintenance cost.

Micro sewage plant, highest capital cost and requires power supply but appears to be lowest ongoing cost maintenance and cleanest discharge and eaesiset permissions.

Looking at provoding facilities for workshop premises with less than 5 people about regularly as against a cafe serving coach tours.

Any advice or experiences to share?

Thanks!

[Martin Bonner]

I think you've covered the options and got the pluses and minuses.

I think you will struggle to get permission for a new septic tank.

I used to have a micro-sewage plant. We had it emptied every year, but I'm not sure it needed it (three people living in a house - probably more volume through it than you will have: baths, dishwasher, washing machine). It would keep tripping out the RCD in wet weather, but I fixed that by replacing the cable. Other than that, no trouble.

I would have expected you to need power of some sort at a workshop. The power demands of a micro-sewage plant are not high (Klargester claim 1.3kWh/d). You might be able to manage on solar or wind + a battery ... particularly if you could recharge from a genset. OTOH, beware a Christmas shutdown.

[spuorgelgoog]

Depends on the type. The Clivus Multrum claims to only need emptying every 2-10 years depending on the tank size, as the composting is done inside the tank and it can use a foam water flush.

Dunno about the cost.

Owain

[harry]

A micro sewage plant is only a septic tank with further processing on the effluent discharge to improve clarity. This often takes the form of a reed bed. This is something you can rig up yourself.

It still needs regular emptying. I empty mine every five years.

You missed an option which is "cesspit". Often cunningly converted to septic tank unofficially.

Or done entirely on the QT. Depending on how public the site is and who's watching.

Or cunningly upgrade existing facility.

[Tim+]

Reed beds aren't without their problems and dangers.

Tim

[Jonno]

Adam Aglionby scribbled

Shit in the woods ?

[Dave Liquorice]

No that is septic tank with reed bed of the outflow.

A septic tank use anerobic processes to break down the muck and is passive. The out flow is not very pleasant and is normally routed to a beneath surface soak away network.

A micro sewage plant use aerobic processes to break down the muck and requires power for the compressor to airate the contents and to drive the stirrer. The out flow is (should be) clean enough to be discharged on the surface or to a water course.

[mick]

Woodent that be a composting toilet? :)

[spuorgelgoog]

Dog-poo bags and everyone takes their own home at the end of the day?

Owain

[Jonno]

mick scribbled

Bearly...

[harry]

Reed beds also use aerobic processes. No power/fancy equipment needed but takes up more space.

[Martin Bonner]

My Klargester had no compressor. The aeration was caused by disks (about

1m diameter) which were half in the waste and half in the air. They rotated round (slowly - once every ?30s?). The disks had a bio-film growing on them, and the rotation kept them moist and aerated. One of the disks had a scoop about the size of a mug which poured a mugful of waste per revolution from the dirty side to the clean side which would entrain a little more air.

[Adam Aglionby]

Thanks for all the input, gave me a few avenues to explore further.

From what have learned so far , composting toilets are a licence to print money for people who used to just make garden sheds, now a 4X4 pent roof is 1795 + VAT if supplied with an earth floor and some buckets....

The Clivus system looks good but suspecting its going to be even more expensive than the 4X4 earth floor pent roof.

Thanks for comment on septic tanks and following Klargester links, distributed by Kingspan, Enviroment Agency at least in England is banning their use after 2020 , will have to check on Scottish regulations, cess pits are already banned.

Power, water and a drain field or water course shouldn`t be an issue on site currently looking at, there may be a possibility of getting together with the neighbours, who do have septic tanks if they are going to have to be replaced. In meantime chemical seems to be the expedient choice.

[Huge]

[20 lines snipped]

There is much at this link which is not true, presumably because Klargester are keen to sell people package treatment plants they do not need. Interested readers should go here;

- Septic tanks are *not* being banned.

- There is *no* general requirement to upgrade to a package treatment plant when selling a house after January 2015.

[Dave Liquorice]

I've yet to follow and read your link.

Even ones whose outflow is on the surface rather than underground? I also dedected the scare story marketing hype but the satement:

"If you have a septic tank that discharges directly to a surface water you will need to replace or upgrade your treatment system by 1 January 2020, or when you sell your property if before this date."

Is pretty definative. Of course it omits what is meant by "replace or upgrade", the inference being you'll need to replace with a Klargester but "upgrade" could just be bung the outflow underground into a drainage field.

It doesn't say there is, except if you have septic tank with a surface outflow. Your marketing bullshit filter has failed, you need to replace it with a Klargester. B-)

[Huge]

:o)

I *have* a Klargester, and have just sold my house and bought another house, which *also* has a Klargester package treatment plant, hence my interest. The Klargester web site is very cleverly worded (IMO) to mislead.

[News]

In message , Huge writes

Well done that man! Hope it was the one you wanted.

[Huge]

Thank you, and it was.

[Martin Bonner]

The link says that if you have a septic tank *discharging to open water* you will have to upgrade. I think an existing septic tank discharging to a drainage field is OK (which means your neighbours are OK.

Following

it appears new septic tanks are OK.

(My old house must have had a Klargester because there wasn't space for a drainage field.)

[Adam Aglionby]

Darn your right, all this looking into toilets something had to stick :-)

SEPA don`t seem to have any such doomsaying about septic tanks or packaged treatment plants

It does reinforce on me that lack of mains sanitation is never going to be a cheap problem to fix.