Central heating - what are the options?

[Andrea Fuller]

I live in a 1980's house. There was a very brief period when 'forced air' heating was fashionable and this is what I have. The most expensive to run and inefficient heating I have ever had. Great for blowing dust around, but that's about it. So I am getting ready to have it all ripped out (including the ducting) and replaced with something more efficient and a bit cheaper to run. I'm thinking gas combi boiler (the immersion heater is original and only one element still works, so that needs sorting too), a timer/controller with battery backup, and individually adjustable radiators, but bow to your superior knowledge in this, so all suggestions appreciated. Recommendations for local (Winchester, Hampshire) companies who are good and reliable (or who to avoid) also welcome. Due to increasing disability, I can no longer do it myself. The house is a three bedroom end of terrace house, with the bedrooms and loo upstairs. Downstairs is semi open plan and will be extended at some point (funds permitting) as I desperately need a downstairs loo. TIA

[Set Square]

I think that in your situation, I would go for a gas-fired conventional (as opposed to combi) condensing boiler. You presumably already have a stored hot water system (currently heated by an immersion heater) so you will simply have to replace the existing cylinder with a new (insulated, of course) indirect cylinder. The boiler will heat both the hot water and a number of radiators - with zone valves (S-plan or S-plan plus - see

)

I would turn the heating zone(s) on and off with programmable thermostat(s) and would fit all radiators except in the room(s) where the room stat(s) are located with TRVs (thermostatic radiator valves). Programmable room stats are battery powered, and don't lose their time or programme in a power cut (but the heating system itself won't operate without mains power!).

Get a generously sized boiler to allow for future extensions. [Modern boilers are still very efficient even when not running at max output]. If you are concerned about running costs - which I assume you are - and plan to stay there for a few years, pay particular attention to making sure that the house is well insulated. Start with really thick (8" or more) loft insulation and consider cavity wall insulation if it hasn't already been done. Make sure the windows and doors are draughtproof. [If you need to replace any windows, they'll have to be done to the latest energy efficient spec. anyway - but don't change them just for the hell of it until you have done the easy bits first].

Doubtless you will get other answers from people who prefer combi boilers. They have their advantages - like freeing up the space occupied by hot water cylinders - but can also take a long time to heat up the water for a bath. Give me stored hot water every time!

Sorry, I don't know any installers in Winchester. You sound as if - but for physical constrains - you might be prepared to do it yourself. You can at least design it yourself, and calculate all the heat losses and radiator sizes - so that you'll be able to check the reasonableness of what installers offer you.

[Dave Liquorice]

Agree with the general ideas of programable stats, TRVs and keeping the stored HW system.

Thats about the only one isn't it?

Me to. With a combi if the water main fails you have no water, end of story. Can't flush the loo, can't make a cup of tea.

At least with a HW cylinder and CW storage tank you normally have 50 odd gallons to tide you over and keep the loo clean, within "if it's yellow let it mellow, if brown flush it down" constraints.

[Martin Angove]

Much as I wouldn't give a combi room in my house unless I absolutely had to, I have found one situation where really a combi is the only (sensible) way to go: my church is a Baptist church and so we are in the occasional habit of baptising adults - none of your sprinkings, this is whole-body-under-the-water stuff.

To this end we have a baptistry which is basically a big, lined, hole in the floor about 10ft by 4ft by 4ft at maximum which is filled with water when a baptism service is happening. It (now) has a cold and a hot tap on the end of 15mm pipework (took about 5 hours to fill a couple of weekends ago) and the combi, regulated so that you can turn the tap fully-on without the water going cold, provides just enough heat to take the edge off the temperature.

In the old days we used to fill it with a hosepipe and tea urn :-)

In the old, old days the standard way to heat it was with some incredible devices made up by an enterprising person: galvanised steel buckets with a standard immersion heater mounted in the bottom, and set to float on the water.

When I was baptised they didn't bother heating it at all :-/

Hwyl!

M.

[Andy Hall]

How about treating it as a small swimming pool and heating it with a conventional boiler via a heat exchanger?

... and no RCD of course......

Quite right too.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[IMM]

There is the extra cost. A combis is simple and cheap and does the job.

A And hoping of divine intervention if something goes wrong.

[Dave Liquorice]

Quite, modern whimps... Did they have nice warm rivers back when ever? A quick dunk in cold water is harmless to a healthy adult, quick rub down and a happy clappy sing song afterwards to warm you up, no problem.

[IMM]

Madness!

Keep it, you have no rads on walls to leak water. Johnson & Starley make replacement units that are state of the art with electrostatic air filters, variable speed fans, modulating gas burners, sophisticated electronic controls, electrostatic air filters (recommended for asthmatics) , precise electronic temp control etc. etc. The modern units are much quieter and do not cause draughts. You can always add a heat recovery fresh air vent unit too. Fresh air all the time in the house.

registers and grills are also available to totally revamp the whole thing. It is usually cheaper to run than boilers systems. J&S have an add on condensing unit that is inserted into a conventional flue in the loft to improve efficiency. Some USA units by Lennox and Trane have built in condensing in forced flues.

Forced air was the first mass heating system in the UK in the 1950s. Today well over a million systems are in use. They are now gaining ground again after a bad image as some systems were just plain bad.

[MBQ]

Define "mass heating system" please. What about coal fires? I think there were a few of those around in the 1950s.

And how many more were there that have been ripped out and replaced by wet systems?

Prove it! Give us an example of a mass market housing development currently being built using warm air and I'll take you seriously.

s/some/most/

MBQ

[timegoesby]

My cousin bought a big 4 year old house with a warm air and a heat recovery system all integrated. It also draws in fresh air from ouitside as well. It has a grill to and from each room. The system is quiet and the house always has a nice fresh feel to it because of the constant fesh air being drawn in. It keeps the house cool in summer by circulating air around which is very effective. My cousin loves it and I am impressed as well. If ever I build a new house, a system like that will be first choice. I also like not having radiators on the wall. The hot water cylinder is heated by a small boiler.

[IMM]

A heating system with a cenral source of heat.

Yes, one in each room. There was also gas fires as well and also electric fires too. And those dangerous oil heaters.

Ring J&S they always have a few here and there which they are supplying.

You know "nothing" of forced air whatsoever. That is sad.

[Andy Hall]

Perhaps you're thinking of the system that Erich Honecker built around East Berlin with blue and red pipes snaking their way around the streets. There was one additional problem, apart from the aesthetics. It didn't work.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[IMM]

No.

[MBQ]

Ignorance is bliss.

Lack of any trace of warm air heating in my current house is also bliss.

MBQ

[IMM]

Stay in your ignorance then. Sad, very sad. Some people are incapable of being educated.

[Martin Angove]

[...]

If it were permanently filled - we were baptising on a weekly basis perhaps - then yes, something like this would be the best option (along with a treatment plant), but the fact is that at the moment it is used something like two or three times a year and is only filled a few hours before use. Heating this volume of water indirectly would take rather a long time.

I don't think they were generally available. I'd certainly not heard of them in 1982 which is when I was baptised...

I suppose the other option is a quick dunking in the "Black Brook" (otherwise known as Nant yr Aber) a hundred yards from the front door :-)

Hwyl!

M.

[geoff]

In message , Martin Angove writes

Of course, those of real faith need no heating

Why not do a deal with the local swimming pool ?

[Andy Hall]

This reminds me of one occasion when I was at university and going to a service in a Welsh Baptist chapel. English speakers were greeted and welcomed and then the entire service was of course conducted in Welsh.

Most of my friends and I had learned a little Welsh but the hymns would have proven a challenge. However, this had been thought about and printed sheets provided with the Welsh text and then phonetic English below.

Thus we were able to avoid the embarassment that John Redwood suffered some years later at a conference over the singing of Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Tony Bryer]

I went to a Bemba speaking church in Zambia. Before the missionaries came the language wasn't written down. The missionaries wrote as they heard. No problems singing along with everyone else (except for the fundamental problem of not being able to sing!)

[MBQ]

And some think they know everything already.

I choose to get my education from people who know their subject.