New televisions from China or Taiwan

[john hamilton]

Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set repaired, and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the sheer choice seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime in the future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that means we would benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to take advantage of future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its not worth paying extra for a Japanese name?

Grateful for any advice on what you might think is a good buy of reasonable quality around at the moment, bearing in mind I would prefer to keep the price down if possible. Many thanks for any advice.

[David]

I have a Panasonic with Freesat HD built in, Panasonic always seem to be "Best Buys" in reviews. Personally would not buy a new TV without a Freesat HD or Freeview HD built in. I doubt my Panasonic was any much dearer than the equivalent non Freesat model, but I did shop around and priced matched at Comet with the Richerr Sounds price. Regards David

[js.b1]

CRT TVs were invariably repairable. A CRT TV has a lot of discrete components. A component failure did not write-off the TV despite a bit of labour involved particularly having to resolder everything in sight.

LCD & Plasma TVs are invariably not repairable. An LCD TV is Panel + Processing + Backlight + PSU, and that is about it. Of those PSU & backlight are replaceable if you have a branded unit - on cheaper TVs it can prove difficult to source the parts rendering it landfill..

So look for a TV with free 3yr or 5yr warranty, I say free to the extent of paying =A329 or =A375 - but not the overpriced high street warranties. A flip side is that in 5yrs it may be out of date, but alternatively not everyone wants to spend =A3300-500 every 5yrs.

Panel type matters if you are viewing from below the TV or around a room. TN panels do 6-bit colour with limited viewing angle (contrast lost & colours go AWOL), whereas (S-)PVA & (S-)IPS do 8-bit colour with wider viewing angle before suffering degradation. If you are used to CRT, no LCD is a perfect replacement - the top ones are good on foliage & particularly sea scenes, but not so good on dark scenes & human face colours. In particular the cheaper panels can do quite poorly re dark scenes & suffer backlight "spotlight casts".

Plasma do a lot better, there used to be a good Hitachi unit quite cheaply at Richer Sounds. On plasma you really do want a free 5yr warranty - they run hotter, consumer more power, more dependent on active cooling (fans).

Check Online, Richer Sounds, John Lewis, even the local supermarket.

Samsung have good picture, the smaller end models can have diabolical sound (3W mono cassette recorder). Toshiba have good picture, not so good sound. Hitachi a bit better. Sony & Panasonic better. Now gone Pioneer plasma the best at a price to match. No-name can be variable. The better models have better sound, not just better picture BTW.

Shop LCD are rarely set up correctly. The most immediate thing to change is the noise reduction & sharpness settings, too high a sharpness setting and it looks like a jaggy grainy jiggery computer image. If you can see motion judder you need a better TV, some cheap TVs suffer it quite badly on motion and even the major names can suffer it slightly on slow panning of foliage scenes. Some people are very sensitive to it and once pointed out to them or noticed they do not like it.

Look for Freeview HD if you want to avoid another box. You can often pick up last years models very cheaply, eg, Asda & Sainsburys, however check what the specs are. A while back the typical cost-cutting was a cheaper panel or cheap sound or one HDMI input. Today another item to check is no Freeview HD built-in.

Tesco Direct is another good source - and check on Ebay because they have a refurbished store. I think they do various LG & other TVs are heavily discounted prices, refurbished, 12 months warranty. LG are Lucky Goldstar of Tottenham Court road fame in the early 1980s and slightly below Samsung, although both LG & Samsung PSU designs are a weak point (on anything).

Amazon UK website is a good place to read reviews, just read the bad ones first because they are often from people who can tell the difference between a junk TN panel and IPS panel rather than someone who just stuck an Xbox on it.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Check out Costco too, if you have a card, or are eligable for one. A couple of friends ended up buying TVs on my card last year, as they were over £100 cheaper than high street for a £500 TV, and that included a 5 year guarantee. High street shops probably won't price-match Costco.

[geoff]

In message , Andrew Gabriel writes

Seconded, the TV I bought last year (or was it the year before, maybe I should join the silversurfers ...) from Richer Sounds was cheaper and had a longer warranty in Costco

[mike]

Given that, until a few years ago, we were all used to CRT, how come so many have gone over to LCD and CRT are now impossible to buy new?

We still have a CRT. I hope it keeps going because all the LCDs I've seen have been pretty poor in comparison.

[geoff]

In message , js.b1 writes

It does in most cases - all the TV repair shops around here have gone. Unless you know what you are doing, TV repair is becoming a thing of the past

[Tim Watts]

js.b1 wibbled on Sunday 25 July 2010 14:25

Agree. Half the quality is to do with the Panel. Sony Bravia panels are brilliant, but many Samsungs have the same panel - do some reading and know what's in the set. Panel is everything for vibrance, contrast (blacks on LCDs are sometimes not actually very black - look for the contrast ratio figures). And as js says, viewing angle. I have 2 Samsungs. One 42" decent on with a Sony panel and it is brilliant. And one little cheap one that is OK until you look at it from the floor and it blacks out fast below 0 degrees.

The other thing you get with a decent make is more likely a decent decoder. It's not just about reception and picture anymore - with DTV it's aboout how good the MPEG decoder is. Some are bloody awful with rapid degeneration to artifacts and motion blur, and coupled with a poor tuner that takes ages to lock on and present the multiplexes, leads to a crap viewing experience. OK for a kitchen table TV, but you'd want to avoid such nastinesses on your main set.

[Scott]

[snip]

My impression is that 'Japanese' sets are usually assembled in eastern Europe. My Sony was assembled in Slovakia.

[Bob Henson]

One problem with built in tuners is that, as far as I am aware, most of those sets don't have a hard drive and recording facility built in, thus necessitating another box as well. Similarly, if the tuner "breaks" for any reason, you need to buy the whole new TV. Another problem is that if (more likely when) there are new technological developments you have to get a new TV set to upgrade, whereas a separate box is cheaper and easier to change. Perhaps the best way at the moment is to have a TV set with Freeview HD built in, and a separate Freesat box. I'd do it that way as most new developments are likely to be available on satellite first, and in most areas (unless you're in a very good terrestrial reception area) the HD picture will most likely be better on satellite. My set only has an ordinary terrestrial tuner built in (HD terrestrial didn't exist when I bought it) but it makes a useful backup (and gives you a few more channels) on the very rare occasions (exceptionally heavy rain or snow) when satellite reception is not 100%.

Back to John's original question as to which brand of TV, I think the same applies as to most things, you get what you pay for. I would always go for the best brand that I could afford. I picked a Samsung, but would have bought Panasonic or Sony (the latter somewhat overpriced) if not. I paid a little more for mine by buying from John Lewis, but got a five year guarantee for free, making it more or less the same as the cheaper suppliers with a guarantee added. The satellite PVR is a Humax Foxsat.

Regards,

Bob

[John]

Panasonic from Richer Sounds

[tony sayer]

In article , geoff scribeth thus

Don't think its knowing what your doing, its just Joe Publicke doesn't want to pay anything to have anything repaired any longer...

[Adrian]

Having a built in tuner doesn't prevent you from having an external box, or boxes.

[geoff]

In message , Bob Henson writes

Most come with tuners built in nowadays

I think in these throwaway days, where greenwash is paid no more than lipservice, very little is economically repairable, unless it is a really trivial problem

You might be surprised to know that even central heating boilers are expected to only have a 5-7- year life now

So much for conserving resources

Don't buy too big if you are watching it in a small room

An important consideration is what inputs it has. If, for example, you have only a SCART output from a video and your TV doesn't you would be a bit buggered

Panasonic are I think good TVs, I have a Sharp, and while the picture is good, I find it slow and it's response to the remote clumsy.

[geoff]

Have you tried buying a camera that takes emulsion film lately, or an IDE hard drive?

[griffin]

looking for the 'made in' label can be like the bran tub. you just do not know, and these days it can be anywhere at all. one thing though, each manufacturer, whilst using foreign labour and expertise to assemble, have their own specifications. chances are that the components all come from the same source. I should think that it is as it always has been with these things, each Brand has it's own quality, some better than others

[michael adams]

- Given that, until a few years ago, we were all used to CRT, how come

- so many have gone over to LCD and CRT are now impossible to buy new?

Flat panels are that much cheaper and more convenient to ship, warehouse and display in the showroom. Certainly for the equivalent size screen, The same may go for manufacturing costs. And so any "benefits" are pushed to the exclusion of everything else. Exactly the same applies with portable computers. 20 years ago anyone with any knowledge of ergonomics would have explained that the relative position of the keyboard and screen in laptops means that anyone using one for extended periods could expect serious neck problems after about 10 years of use. For executives travelling on planes or trains that was no problem. But now they're the preferred choice of home computer for almost everyone. Simply because they take up that much lesss space in a container, warehouse or showroom. So they're promoted to the exclusion of almost everything else

- We still have a CRT. I hope it keeps going because all the LCDs I've

- seen have been pretty poor in comparison.

Indeed. The only incontestable benefit of all flat panels is however the much smaller footprint. To fit an equivalent size of CRT to the larger flat panels into many smaller modern rooms, would mean almost having the viewers knees touching the screen. So its often more a case of never mind the quality feel the width.

michael adams

...

[ARWadsworth]

Not always true.

I took my Makita drill in for repair. The final repair bill was more than the cost of a new drill. I told them to keep the drill and walked out of the shop. I did get a letter threatening me with court action over non payment but nothing ever happened. I suspect that the repairer was working on a "lets see if swapping this part will fix it" basis instead of finding the fault and swapping the faulty part.

When one of my computer monitors packed in I found it cheaper to buy a bigger and better second hand one from ebay for less than a repair would have cost.

Cheers

Adam

[js.b1]

CRT are gone due to component count, assembly cycle time, profit margins. CRT are still made for a lot of the rest-of-world, but quality is someway down (or rather calibration is someway down).

LCD are winning due to economy of scale, particularly "sweet spot size", driving down cost & maintaining profit margins. A case of a cash-cow replacing cash-dog where CRT are concerned.

[Dave Liquorice]

I wouldn't touch an LCD panel with a barge pole. They aren't as a bad as they where for smearing on movement but they still aren't good. The crystals take a finite time to move, they just can't colour change fast enough. Then there is the lack of decent black and the viewing angle restrictions.

Definitely, make sure the native panel resolution is at least 1920 x

1080. I'm not sure that the "Full HD 1080p" marketing sticker means that. The "HD Ready" one isn't worth the paper it's printed on...

See if the makers have the user manual on their website, it's always worth a read before you buy both for the proper specs and to see what features the marketing has missed out.

We have a Pansonic plasma Full HD 1080p 1920 x 1080 native resolution and HD stuff does look like an open window (even off air, Blu-ray is even better). The label on the back says assembled in the Czech Republic. This set is a 42" plasma but it doesn't have any fans, most of the

300W odd of waste heat seems to come out the front...