new lock cylinders

If the cylinders are Euro cylinders and they are protruding beyond the handles then it's probably the wrong type fitted. I got an Avocet cylinder from these people

As you can see there are 21 different versions. It just needs some careful measuring from the centre of the lock to,the outside of the internal and external handles and you should be able to get a lock that has minimal protrusions.

Richard

I just fitted a thumb turn Euro lock yesterday, I've been meaning to do it for a while, visitors don't like being locked in, (I don't like to leave the key in the lock) an there is the issue of an easy fire escape.

If your original lock is proud of the escutcheon on one or both sides it is probebly the wrong length to begin with. They go up in 5 mm steps independently for either side

As I discovered the thumb turn ones are quoted with the thumb turn (internal) side first eg 40/45

Measurement is from the securing screw hole centre to the end of the barrel, in other words the two digits added.

The other thing I noticed after I fitted it, is the thumbturn itself has a 7 mm shoulder, so if it was 5mm shorter on that side it would still have functioned.

The one I got from Ebay turned out to be a "Carl F". It was £7.99 including postage and 3 keys. No idea how the quality compares with a Yale et all, It looks OK to me.

I have done some reading about avocet and apparently if the thumb turn is not left in the correct position, you cannot open the lock using the key from the other side. This put me off avocet, so I started to look at Yale, only there is a similar disclaimer on their web site, so now I am wondering whether I should give up on the thumb turn idea. I don't like the idea of locking myself out because I've left the thumb turn in the wrong position. Has anyone had experience of this?

Thanks, Stephen.

Beware of having a thumbturn within reach of a letterbox, there are tools available for locksmiths to allow operating thumbturns that way, I doubt this has escaped the notice of scrotes. Why not keep a front door key on a length of chain or elastic that can reach the front door, but is well out of reach?

Handles and doors come in different thicknesses, euro cylinders are generally available in separate 5mm increments for the indoor and outdoor length.

I think you get a certificate with the lock that "proves" you're the owner, and locksmiths aren't suppose to cut keys without it, how well this works in practice to stop grey copies of keys being made, I don't know. You might also want to consider having keyed-alike or master keyed locks if you're looking at higher security ones. Look into the various anti-bump, anti-snap, anti-drill types.

Can't see the logic in that. Turning the key turns the thumb turn e.g. they are on the same shaft.

Just tried mine (Toolsatan jobbie) and can't make it do that.

Thumb turn is a small security risk IMO but a HUGE benefit in a fire.

I look after two buildings that use those. The blanks to cut duplicate keys are restricted to only one locksmith & only the building owner knows who it is. If you found the locksmith he will only cut the key after receiving written authorisation from the owner.

Timpson's et al can't obtain the blanks. Replacement key is around £6. New euro cylinder £60+. They are anti-bump, anti-snap, anti-drill types.

amazon has reviews of all sellers

I've not encountered any brand that's not upto the job, so it doesn't seem to matter

I gather they're more cost, more security, I've not used those.

NT

I guess Avocet might be different from the standard ones.

Ironic that Police will tell you NEVER to fit thumbscrews while Fire Brigade says ALWAYS fit them.

Swapped my mum's from key to thumbscrew when she started to get confused. I don't think I would ever want ones with keys inside.

OK I know I leave myself open to ridicule, but none of the locks mentioned would be considered secure in my book, you can have anti bump ....whatever, it is all marketing hype.

I got in to lockpicking a couple of years back and I am not that good but very few locks defeat me. I have just had a Yale padlock that is anti everything that cost £73 (cheapest I could find but sent to me for free) and I was in within a few minutes. Most Euro style locks take around a couple of minutes on a bad day.

Now the reality...most break-ins are a smashed window or a kicked in door. Snapping the cylinder is a common way to defeat them so get the correct size and you can fit a part internally that makes this more difficult, its like a sort of brace.

Me...I have cheap locks with a stand alone alarm, noise (in my opinion) is a bigger deterent as I doubt if any burglars actually pick locks.

I just a nuisance, far too many false alarms from car/house alarms, usually at 3 am, nobody pays attention to them any more.

I suspect you're right.

Thanks. Here is one warning about the avocet, copied and pasted from a web site (an online shop found via google); the capitals are theirs:

"Care should be taken when using the ABS thumbturn cylinder. The thumbturn is spring loaded to comply with the new TS008 maximum security standard, this is a security feature whereby the thumbturn cannot be "fished" to unlock the door from outside. THE THUMBTURN MUST BE PUSHED IN TO TURN AND MUST BE RELEASED BACK TO ITS ORIGINAL OUT POSITION AFTER EVERY OPERATION: This is a design feature to ensure that the lock is always in the correct position to resist external attack. IF THE THUMBTURN IS LEFT IN THE MIDWAY POSITION (IE: THE SPRING MECHANISM HAS NOT RELEASED) YOU WILL ENCOUNTER A PROBLEM INSERTING THE KEY FULLY FROM THE OUTSIDE. On a lever outside / lever inside operation door this means that you could be locked out if a member of your household has locked the door from the inside and not returned the thumbturn to the correct position."

This made me think I would try Yale instead, but I found a similar disclaimer for their 3 star locks, which I can't find at the moment to quote, sorry.

Perhaps the way to go is a 1 star cylinder in a 2 star handle, to give three star protection, rather than a 3 star lock with thumb turn with this "feature". Like you say, probably most break ins are opportunists through open doors and windows, or if determined, nothing will stop them.

That's interesting. How did you learn that and where did you get your equipment?

Always wanted to try it but didnt start til I retired. Plenty of videos on utube and a couple of helpful forums. The tools can be bought on line but easy to make your own from hacksaw blades and the metal inserts in car wiper blades. You only need 2 small tools to get most lower end locks, a tension bar and a pick. Once you understand how locks work its not so difficult although it did take me 4 weeks to pick my first one. There are some I know I will never manage to pick but I do enjoy the challenge.

I wonder whether the Avocets, for all their more advanced features, are still vulnerable to the automatic "vibrator" type pick which I believe locksmiths often use.

Not sure about the vibrator tool but.....

I used to be able to pick locks at school and that was well before the internet told you how. It was fun to switch the bike locks about. 8-)

All you need is a bit of bent metal and a bit of spring for the majority of locks.