New Gas Boiler again

I have a 20 years old Glow-worm Spacesaver wall boiler which works fine, providing pumped CH and gravity DHW. B/Gas 3 star engineers keep telling me the they can "no longer guarantee to be able to source spares"...ie a sales ploy to sell a new boiler. Our local council are supplying discounted high efficiency boilers as a greening initiative, but I reckon the bill will be 2k with fitting and maybe mods to the exisiting system. Any of you experts got any impartial advice ? My gut instinct is to try and source spares for my existing boiler to keep it going as long as possible. What do you think.?
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Keep it going. Start putting money into a replacement fund for when it finally breaks down terminally. Don't bother with boiler insurance. If you hadn't paid for it and just put the cash into a bank account, you'd probably already have saved enough for a new boiler...
Christian.
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

I would update the system at a time of *my* choosing, and certainly *not* employ BG to do it.
It's pretty certainly a sales ploy to try to sell you a new boiler - although there *may* be a risk of not being able to get spares at some point, which would leave your stranded. Meanwhile BG still seem willing to take your money for a maintenance contract - which would be fraud if they *knew* they couldn't get spares. [There are lots of on-line sources of boiler spares. It wouldn't do any harm to line up possible sources of PCBs (if applicable), fans (if applicable), thermostats, gas valves etc.]
Updating your system will cost quite a lot of money. Not only will you need a new boiler but you will also need to modify the pipework and add a lot of controls - zone valves, tank stat, TRVs, etc. to comply with the latest regs. BUT, having done it, you will save a *lot* of fuel. Modern boilers are much more efficient than 20-year-old models and, coupled with better controls, you'll achieve the same or better comfort levels with a lot less gas.
So it *is* worth doing - but you can choose your own time to do it.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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On 12 Jan 2005, Set Square wrote

-snip-
Agreed.
As an aside, I've just had a conversation with my boiler service guy (very local -- I know him well, as he lives three doors away), who was saying that from (April?), new installations will have to use condensing boilers, and conventional boilers like mine (which is 7 or 8 years old) will no longer be installed.
He understands the efficiency reasoning behind this -- although, as he noted, placing a condensing boiler on an old system can reduce the efficiency to the point where it's not actually condensing -- but mentioned that he's quite busy at the moment installing conventional boilers for people who want to beat the deadline for the new regs.
--
Cheers,
Harvey
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

AIUI, boilers will have to be capable of at least a certain efficiency level - which condensing boilers can meet more easily. I'm not sure that it's necessarily *impossible* to meet with a non-condensing boiler?

*Can* but not necessarily *does*. Systems designed to run at a high radiator temperature won't allow the boiler the condense when running at that temperature. But this will only happen in very cold weather. In milder conditions, the rads can run cooler - but be on more of the time - which *will* allow the boiler to condense.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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On 12 Jan 2005, Set Square wrote



That would be interesting to know -- but from my friend's statement it sounded as if the manufacturers werent' going down that road. (He mentioned that the only non-condensing boiler which was currently available without jumping through hoops was a floor-standing rather than wall-mounted model.)

Yes, right: he was quite clear that it was system-dependent. He was just making the point that increased efficiency depends on more than simply hooking up a condensing boiler to all existing systems.
--
Cheers,
Harvey
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Not so. Just get the right boiler and simple replacement and efficiencies far greater than before.
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Having said that, a new boiler - condensing or not - is going to be a damn sight more efficient than a 20-year-old model anyway!
Personally, I wouldn't want it *too* efficient. Stray heat from my boiler is the *only* heat I curently have in my utility room!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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wrote:

Bills will drop by about 40%. It is worth keeping this boiler for a while and see if the condensers drop in price after April.
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Oh cobblers.
A condensing boiler will achieve up to 30% improvement over a cast iron machine, but 40% is overstating it and devaluing the proposition.
--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
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wrote:

damn
while
Wrong ng.

Not so. A 50-55% efficient cast-iron clunker replaced by a high efficiency condenser with TRVs, and ate-of the art controls, quick recovery cylinder etc, will give approx 40% (older boilers are nor suited to quick recovery cylinders as they cause the boiler to condense). Remember the old boilers efficiency would have tailed off over the years. I have come across this sort of efficiency hype.
There you are. easy.
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IMM wrote:

A quick look at the SEDBUK database shows over 3000 boilers listed, of which approx 1% have efficiencies listed at 55%. 99% are 65% or better.
That would suggest achieving your 40% figure is going to be a rare event.

As a purveyor it would seem.
--
Cheers,

John.

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So now we're getting closer to reality, but of course spending even more money. Oh - I'll bet there are very few 50-55% boilers left in existence.
--
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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wrote:

<snip drivel>
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 00:05:17 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

Even BG only say 35%. As posted elsewhere, based on actual installations, including my own. A 30% saving is achievable as an upper bound.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
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wrote:

was
damn
while
Replace an old boiler with decreased effciency over time, add a new quick recovery coil cyilinder, modern controls, etc, replaced by a top line boiler will give 40%. It is the boiler and amendments to the system that all add up.
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And if the old boiler has an efficiency of 75% and already has a decent control system dIMMs only answer is "snip drivel" because he doesn't understand the figures. To him 40% is just a magic incantation.
--
Roger

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contains these words:

quick
boiler
add
< snip drivel >
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IMM wrote:

Of course when you think about it, it does not "add up". Your quick recovery coil cylinder will heat up faster and hence take more power from the bolier, but the total energy consumption to heat x litres of water stays the same as with the old cylinder. So the only gain in efficency there is the boilers, and you can't count that again.
--
Cheers,

John.

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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

There is a very *marginal* effect - and I doubt whether you could measure it. If you heat the water faster, the boiler and the intermediate pipework are hot for less time, so there are *slightly* less losses in this area. This argument is probably more valid when used in a pumped vs gravity HW context.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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