Mr.Clutch?

I feel like a complete knob. Just took my qashqui in for a new clutch and got the old sharp intake of breath crap... "oh and your dual mass flywheel needs replacing" Total cost £1150 (quoted £420 for clutch origina lly)

It's near-as-dammit a scam on their part. Was recently talking to a chap who'd taken his car in and, since the job over-ran and he had nothing better to do, he was sat in reception for a few hours. The manager was phoning down the list of every job they had in and repeating the "you need a new DMF" mantra to every single one.

Theoretically it's not a bad idea to do the flywheel while it's all apart to save on labour but DMFs aren't £700.

ECP price for a typical Qashqai DMF is 650UKP, so 700UKP from a garage isn't actually a bad price.

Agree that it makes sense to change it with the clutch.

Chris

If a quote is that far away from the original one you'd probably get away with telling them to put it back as it was with no charge and you'll go elsewhere.

You really think that would work?

Chris

I'm pretty sure law covers this and that a quote should give an exact price. Maybe get them to write down the price before they start? I do as I have a s*it memory anyway.

A quote only covers the works as requested and documented i.e replace clutch additional works like flywheel replacement if it isn't included would incur an extra cost . There is no obligation for you to have the flywheel changed, however if it fails or the clutch fails you may not have a claim against the garage.

If the flywheel is in a dangerous condition the garage are not obliged to re assemble your vehicle and you can at your own expense have the vehicle taken to another garage , you will still be responsible for the cost of the works the original garage has performed .

If the garage does reassemble your vehicle at your request and notifies you of the issues again you are responsible for those costs of the clutch and any further failures .

I think the point was that Mr Clutch was being accused of changing fly wheels when there was no need but how would the customer know if it needed changing? Gotcha by the bollocks time.

Think most DMF flywheels need changing along with the clutch. I've no experience of them myself, but the one on my brother's BMW 3 series very definitely did.

It's a tough call. There are specs for checking the DMF is in tolerance (something like: less than X degrees rotational free play) but it's a tough judgement call as to how long it will last.

However, anyone who actually wears a clutch or DMF out probably deserves to pay the cost of both - they ought to last the lifetime of the car these days. My 320d is on 231k miles and still on its original clutch. In the 104k miles I've had it, I've done loads of towing with it and a lot of round the houses stuff. I have to keep the car now as I'm just curious now as to how long it will last[1]!

I also recently changed the clutch in a TD5 Disco on the back of having to do the spigot bush. No point not doing it as there was no history of when it was previously done. Turned out the clutch was 7 years old so probably 60+k on it (03 plate car with 170k on the clock.) I got the vernier out and measured the friction plate and the wear was negligible

- maybe 1mm, I forget, but less than 1/4 of the usable thickness of the thing. And this is a 2-tonne car with ridiculous slop in the diffs & props so the clutch really gets a workout.

Too broad a statement. My brother has a 330 BMW touring which he tows with. The gearing is so high, you have no option but to slip the clutch when manoeuvering the caravan. To the point where it smells. His previous tow car was a much older 520 with much lower gearing (and a lot less power) which was far less hard on the clutch.

Of course you could say it's his fault for buying a vehicle not ideal for towing. But he does far too many miles to stay with an older car.

My dad had an answer to that problem, if he was towing something seriously heavy with his MK2 jag, he would dump the clutch and spin the wheels to get the plot moving, tyres were far cheaper and easier than replacing the clutch.

Can't do that with anything later than 2014 however, as ESP is mandatory.

Chris

bleedin' elf n safety.

there should always be the option to turn this stuff off, even if it defaults to on (next time you start up) I was surprised by how poor abs can be on ice (for example)

If I want the wheels locked up, or spinning, then I do not expect the car to say no !

I agree!

I didn't realise my 2011 Fiesta had ESP until yesterday. It's the 1.6Ti engine, so reasonably nippy. I was exiting a junction on a bend, with a loose surface, so I used a bit of power, expecting that it might break traction. Instead. the light flashed to show ESP, and the power was cut. Under that circumstance, I wanted to nip out before a car came, so I don't see how it made me safer!

I imagine that as it is mandatory now, there will be no option to turn ESP off; my car certainly doesn't have it.

Chris

Because if well done, reducing the power so the wheels are only just on the point of slipping produces a faster getaway than spinning them.

Then in the case of this Fiesta, it's not well done!

Chris

Right. Think the normal way is to apply the brake on the 'spinning' wheel first slightly to force the differential to apply more power to the one with the best grip. But if you carry on regardless, cut the power back.

It certainly worked on a wet road with my now gone BMW. But not much helps on ice.

IME it 'works' on wet roads, but only starts after the nearside wheel has entered the deeper water, and only takes effect as it leaves the deeper water. Which the Mk 1 eyeball had spotted well in advance.