Midway Phone Socket

[Matt]

Not critically you won't - unless you are up a ladder and not strapped on, but contact a core carrying ringing current and it hurts.

[Matt]

Since when have they ever been different? The only screw up in the original BT spec was that cores 1-6 on the cable were incorrectly numbered in the reverse direction to the terminals in the line jack.

[<me9]

I had a 50v shock whilst working up a stepladder. It could be nasty jumping when above ground level.

[Malcolm]

Only if you're a wimp :-)

Worked for BT for five years installing lines, both underground feeds and from poles. Had several "tingles" whilst installing - never hurt :-)

The only time I did think "Bu**er that stung" was whilst fitting a party line filter up a pole in the pouring rain... wet fingers and electricity don't mix !! -

[Owain]

I think the OP said something about a brass master socket, which won't be BT?

Owain

[Andy Wade]

Agreed - the terminal numbering should never be different, unless anyone is selling non-compliant LJUs.

As you say, confusion arises because the pin numbering of the connectors runs the opposite way round to the numbering of the wiring terminals (LJU terminal 1 goes to connector pin 6, and so on). This is widely believed to be the result of a historical c*ck-up.

Pin 1 of the connector is the one furthest from the latch release lever, but unless you are making up your own phone, modem or extension leads you can forget about the connector pin numbers and just follow the terminal numbers, which are *always* wired 2-2, 3-3, 5-5.

has more information and clear diagrams.

[Kroma]

OK, it gets worse!

I brought my really old BT freeway cordless phone over from my parents' house today as I couldn't hear the new BT Paragon phone very well in its home in the main bedroom when I was situated in the lounge.

I plugged it in in the study (which currently has a 15m plug-in extension kit running from the main bedroom) and took the handset downstairs.

Then I (just about) heard the Paragon ringing in the main bedroom but the cordless (plugged in in the study) remained silent.

I investigated further by moving the Paragon to the study (where the cordless remained silent) and phoning the house with my mobile. The Paragon rang. Odd!

I took the cordless to the main bedroom and plugged it straight into the wall. It still wouldn't ring.

I took the cordless base unit downstairs to the master socket... it rang.

I took it to the dining room... it rang.

So now I'm left wondering what to do.

To summarise, I have the following...

A 'brass' master socket in the lounge - seems to work fine.

A brass secondary socket in the dining room - seems to work fine.

An 'unconnected' socket in the hallway (the one I was planning to wire in).

A brass secondary socket in the main bedroom. Works ok with new BT Paragon phone but not with old BT Freeway Cordless (which calls out etc but doesn't want to ring).

A plug in extension in the study which behaves the same way as the socket it is plugged into (in the main bedroom).

There is also an alarm system which is capable of connecting to the phoneline. I'm not sure where this fits in to the equation - maybe it's what's causing the problem 'between floors'?

Should I get someone in to check the system over? I had a quick look behind the faceplate of the main bedroom socket - it was a complete mess with wires everywhere (and the brass faceplate was not earthed as far as I could see). It was also installed upside-down!

Is this something which I should get BT to come and sort out. If not, what sort of person do I look for?

Many thanks in advance... I hope it all makes sense. This 'post-moving-house-DIY' is a really fast learning curve! :o)

Daz

PS I also intend to add ADSL to the line as soon as my computer is in the house. I'm guessing that currently an upstairs location for the broadband router may be a no-no if some phones won't even ring!?

[Owain]

Sounds like the main bedroom socket is only wired with pins 2 and 5. The new Paragon apparently doesn't need pin 3 wired to ring, but the old Freeway does.

Find the wire connected to pin 3 at the other sockets and connect it.

Owain

[Lurch]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 23:28:49 +0100, "Kroma" scrawled:

Er, think I'm with it.

Wouldn't have thought so, unless it's been wired into the phone line in a random fashion.

Definitely not BT (openreach), it'll probably end up worse. Thumb through the local rags as there are sometimes ex-BT engineers offering there services at a reasonable price. I also come at a reasonable rate. ;)

I would take a look at terminal 3 in the bedroom socket, it sounds like it's not correctly terminated.

Not neccesarily, but I would reterminate all the sockets if it were me to prevent any future ADSL problems, but then I know what I'm doing and there is a chance that you could mnake things worse, no offence intended!

[Mike Clarke]

Also check that pins 2 and 5 (the blue pair) aren't reversed. Even if the colours are right don't assume it's right until you've checked pins

2, 3 and 5 on all the rest of the sockets and made sure the same colour goes to the same pin on each.

[Kroma]

Ok chaps and chapesses...

I think I've decided my course of action on this one.

1) Take photos of my sockets' current internal wiring and provide a link here to see if there is any specific info which will help me (it's the spurious hanging wires that I'm worried about) 2) Get BT in to install an official master socket so that any work I do is not 'illegal' 3) Attampt to add my 'midway phone socket' and sorr out the 'pin 3' problem upstairs myself. 4) If all else fails - get in someone else (not necessarily BT) to sort out the problems.

Do you think this is a sensible course of action to take?

Thanks again,

Daz

[Chip]

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 22:55:22 +0100,it is alleged that "Kroma" spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

That's a nice 'ideal' legal course of action, yes. (could be expensive calling BT in though)

[Kroma]

Oh - I thought the price was 30GBP. Is there a call-out charge on top?

Daz

[Chip]

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 23:09:28 +0100,it is alleged that "Kroma" spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

That was my thinking too, however a recent discussion on another group (I forget whether it was here, or UK.Telecom) led me to believe there

*may* be a callout charge on top of that. An enquiry in uk.telecom should produce a result on this score.

[Christian McArdle]

Personally I wouldn't bother. Just use modern phones that don't need pin 3. Pin 3 is a horrible hack that reduces sound quality by unbalancing the pairs and is only required for dinosaur phones.

Christian.

[Kroma]

Phew - a month later (if anybody can remember what was said before)...

I plucked up courage to sort out the phone sockets this week.

I changed the faceplates downstairs (very easy, used the special tool in the lounge and had to strip away to bare wire for the dining room extension as it had screw terminals).

Then I installed my 'midway phone socket' - once again it was the screw terminal variety - I couldn't get proper ones anywhere! It worked a treat - no shocks (even when my gf phoned halfway through... I wish I HAD put a phone on the master socket off hook at that point)!

I also replaced the nasty brass socket upstairs but found some oddities here...

The colouring was reversed when compared with the sockets downstairs.. white with blue rings became blue with white rings etc.

There were also 2 extra wires, an orange and a white in positions 2 and 5. There was also a bundle of other wires which didn't go anywhere (so I taped the ends up).

Everything works now (except my old cordless still won't ring when connected upstairs although my new phone will). Also, if I turn off the power to the upstairs electric sockets - the upstairs extension goes dead.

I assume the colour change has something to do with the way it's connected to the alarm?

Anyway, thanks for helping everybody. I was very naive at the start of this thread having just read back!

Daz

[Bill]

In message , Kroma writes

WHAT????????????????????????

Sorry but I can't think of anything else to say.

Is there a cordless DECT or similar phone plugged in upstairs? Therefore you are cutting the power to its base unit. Surely you don't mean that a plugged in normal phone stops working when you turn the power off do you?

[Chip]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 23:44:37 GMT,it is alleged that Bill spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

You are about to witness Kroma enter... the twilight zone.

Seriously... if this is a normal phone, maybe one of those mains powered phoneline extenders is lurking somewhere. If not, the OP needs to call an exorcist.

[Kroma]

Yes I do - I may be daft but not THAT daft. I was shocked too!! The only explanation I could think of was that it goes through the alarm somehow (it's only the upstairs extension which goes off - all the sockets downstairs continue to work as normal).

Daz

[Chip]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 01:03:14 +0100,it is alleged that "Kroma" spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

BZZT... probable right answer:)

Hadn't thought about that, but yes, the alarm is likely grabbing the line to inform the monitoring centre the power's out...

Sometimes life throws odd things.