Kitchen mains sockets - 2 way to 4 way?

[Hellraiser]

Recently moved house, and there's not really enough sockets in the kitchen, along the one wall we have a single two way outlet and a single two-way on the other wall - I am toying with the idea of converting these into 4 ways (they will only power one juice-hungry device each, a microwave on one and a kettle on the other and the other 3 sockets for trivial stuff like a TV, radio, cordless phone, etc.) Now, I have seen these 2 way to 4 way converters that take the place of your existing two way outlet, but how exactly do these work? Surely they must be deeper to accomodate the length of the earth pin? Do they really work? If so, it's gonna be a piece of cake to do this :)

All help gratefully received, it's going to be next week before I do this anyhow as I got to finish painting the living room first :(

Hellraiser................>

[The Medway Handyman]

Dead easy to fit

[EricP]

You need the wall patress to be set in stone or the constant plugging and unplugging on the end two sockets will work the patress out of the wall. The triple ones are better as there is less leverage on the wall support.

[Hellraiser]

things plugged in permanently anyway, so the inherent problem with 4-ways should hopefully not be a problem for me!

Hellraiser..............>

[Frank Erskine]

A TV in the kitchen? I thought the very idea of a kitchen was to "do your own thing".

Actually I really do need more socket outlets in my kitchen/dining room. At present I have a double outlet in a "sensiblish" place, a single outlet more or less above the sink, a single outlet as part of the cooker control unit, and a double outlet fairly near the dining table.

I'm planning a complete revamp of the kitchen, so I'd really need a new separate ring main, which means a new CU, which means upgraded bonding of gas/water intakes...

[<me9]

And a small fortune to the council for prat Pee certification.

[John Rumm]

They are deeper - the facia bit is deep enough to accomodate the earth pin length (which is not as deep as a conventional surface pattress).

The other limitation is that they are fused at 13A, and this covers all the sockets. So if you wanted two highish load devices you may have a problem.

[Bob Eager]

Didn't stop me putting in an ethernet socket...

[nog]

Conversely, isn't this the shortcoming with British electrics? We have a system that's based on the assumption that every socket will service a

3-bar electric fire, whereas most appliances draw much, much less. In fact, probably 95% of things plugged in here use, individually, four-fifths of five-eighths of sod all.

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:46:31 +0000 someone who may be nog wrote this:-

No, that is the advantage. A system where one can plug a reasonably high current appliance into any socket and it will just work. Far better then the alternatives.

[Andy Wade]

Not really. It's common these days to have 30 to 40 double socket-outlets in a house. Try plugging a 3 kW fire into each outlet and see what happens - 80 * 13 A = 1,040 A...

[Huge]

I have more than that in my study ...

:o)

[Dave Fawthrop]

|On 2007-01-30, Andy Wade wrote: |> nog wrote: |>

|>> Conversely, isn't this the shortcoming with British electrics? We have a |>> system that's based on the assumption that every socket will service a |>> 3-bar electric fire, |>

|> Not really. It's common these days to have 30 to 40 double |> socket-outlets in a house. | |I have more than that in my study ...

Why bother? A few 13 amp sockets with 4/6/12 way extensions, daisy chained if necessary, fastened to the wall will provide everything you need. In the office I have one 13 amp socket -> 4 way -> 4 way -> 12 way, perfectly safely because the actual current used is only a few amps.

[John Rumm]

and what is the earth loop impedance (and hence disconnect time in the event of a fault) at the end of that lot? ;-)

[Huge]

I was being facetious, actually.

Which is what I actually have - 3 "proper" mains sockets, 3 x 12 way Olson strips, plus 3 x 4 way strips on the UPS and 1 x 6 way under my desk, for a total of 54 sockets.

[Dave Fawthrop]

|Dave Fawthrop wrote: | |> the office I have one 13 amp socket -> 4 way -> 4 way -> 12 way, perfectly |> safely because the actual current used is only a few amps. | |and what is the earth loop impedance (and hence disconnect time in the |event of a fault) at the end of that lot? ;-)

It has no less than 3 fuses in the extensions which I try to keep at a reasonable value, so the wire fuses of the ring main are unlikely to blow. Come to think of it I can not remember replacing those ever in 40 years.

[John Rumm]

I think you are missing my point. I was not discussing overload conditions, but fault conditions. Under fault conditions (e.g. a phase to earth short circuit) you *want* a massive fault current to flow so that the circuit protective device operates quickly, thus protecting you from indirect contact to the mains (via a live bit of casework perhaps).

One of the hidden dangers of daisy chaining extension leads is that the total round trip resistance from phase to earth can increase to an unacceptable level. This reduces the fault current that can flow, which in turn increases the time taken for the protective device to open. Thus exposing you to greater risk.

Obviously the risk in this circumstance is minimised if the circuit is also protected by a RCD, however it is particularly worth thinking about if you have your IT kit supported via a UPS - since this can render your RCD protection irrelevant!

[John Rumm]

I was about to say "is that all", but then I counted mine, and only came to 50... so I will not bother mentioning it! ;-)

[Bob Eager]

Fair enough. The main fuse won't blow fast, so it's irrelevant that the extension fuses won't blow fast, as you'd be dead anyway..

[Dave Fawthrop]

|On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:42:17 UTC, Dave Fawthrop | wrote: | |> On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:30:17 +0000, John Rumm |> wrote: |> |> |Dave Fawthrop wrote: |> | |> |> the office I have one 13 amp socket -> 4 way -> 4 way -> 12 way, perfectly |> |> safely because the actual current used is only a few amps. |> | |> |and what is the earth loop impedance (and hence disconnect time in the |> |event of a fault) at the end of that lot? ;-) |> |> It has no less than 3 fuses in the extensions which I try to keep at a |> reasonable value, so the wire fuses of the ring main are unlikely to blow. |> Come to think of it I can not remember replacing those ever in 40 years. | |Fair enough. The main fuse won't blow fast, so it's irrelevant that the |extension fuses won't blow fast, as you'd be dead anyway..

Fuses do *not* protect against electrocution, never did.