key safe recommendation

[Bob Eager]

If their sight is OK in one eye, it will make no difference.

However, I haven't seen any secure ones with large wheels.

[Bob Eager]

Probably because they forget it.

And the carers still need access. They won't always be able to get the care-ee to answer the door if our experience is anything to go by.

[alan_m]

My eyesight is OK and I sometimes have trouble with the numbers stamped into the wheels. It even worse when using a torch - shiny chromed wheels and shiny embossed numbers reflecting back the light.

From experience with this relative, some bad habits have also to be addressed. Because there is a key safe at times no attempt is made to take a door key out with them. As the numbers are difficult to see and the dials are small often only the last digit is changed so its easier to open. (Carers always randomise all 4 numbers on the dials).

[Jim Chisholm]

I'd be wary of any 4 digit code...

We had an aged relative who was admitted to hospital. When a little better he wanted some stuff, but lost his keys on admission... We assumed warden or neighbour would have spare key. They didn't...

I got the 4 digit code at sec>

[charles]

or the battle of ..?

[whisky-dave]

2016 ? perhaps 2020 the peoples vote/battle

[alan_m]

Somewhat like some banks wanting a memorable date in the form day/month/year but then issue the warning not to use your birth date.

[nightjar]

While none of those look suitable, there are locks working on the same principle that are made specifically for your application. If you like the idea, I recommend visiting an independent locksmith and asking what they recommend. They will know which ones are good and which ones are doubtful.

[Ray]

But could well be a problem for the carer who needs to know where it is.

[Alistair Tyrrell]

Apparently many people have set a code of a memorable year such as DoB or marriage. So a high percentage of all keysafes have the first two digits set to 19 meaning the thief only has to twiddle wheels 3 and 4.

[whisky-dave]

User error then. The easy way to get around such simple people is to tell them to put the code in backwards making 19 the LAST 2 digits xx19 Still not the best solution.

[Steve Walker]

Parents' house in France (now sold) had the combination 1815 (Battle of Waterloo).

SteveW

[Martin Brown]

It is a common vulnerability.

The other thing to watch on the push button models of keysafe is that it doesn't matter what *order* you press the buttons in so long as you only press the right ones. This makes a 4 digit code a bit weak.

You can set a five digit code on such devices which makes it secure enough (although not if you set a pair to 1,9).

[Steve Walker]

Theirs was the type with four rotary selectors.

SteveW

[Dave W]

What do you mean by "secure enough"? The number of combinations of 4 digits is (10x9x8x7)/(4x3x2)=210. For 5 digits it's (10x9x8x7x6)/(5x4x5x2)=252, which is hardly better.

There are videos of how to crack the code in seconds by feel, but I've tried them on a new keysafe without success. The methods probably work if the keysafe has been in use for years with the same combination and the grooves have been worn into sloppiness.

It wouldn't take too long to try all 210 combinations of 4 digit codes, bearing in mind that it doesn't matter what order you press the buttons.

[alan_m]

A lot of push button models have more buttons than the 0 to 9 digits. Mine also has a hash and a star button that can be part of the combination. Other models have equivalent extra buttons although I have seen some cheap ones without additional buttons.

[Martin Brown]

Most of the ones I have come across are a hexadecimal 16 digit matrix. So it is actually:

16x15x14x13/24=1820 for 4 digits and 16x15x14x13x12/120=4368 for 5 digits

If it gets worn then a skilled operator can feel for the combination.

Exactly. But the digits are chosen from 16 so it isn't quite that bad.

[Dave W]

Most of the ones I have come across have only 10 buttons!

[Scott]

[snip]

I have concerns about these. My neighbour has one and it seems to me someone could knock it off the wall with a sledgehammer, take it away, open it using power tools and return to rob the house. At the very least, they should be out of sight.

[alan_m]

If carrying a sledge hammer it's much easier to knock out the bottom panel of most doors! Plus, there are much easier methods of opening a keysafe that don't require such a drastic form of physical attack.