Interesting blog on fracking

There's no question there at all, as evidenced by the fact that there is no question mark.

Which EXACTLY proves my point. The fact is that you've simply got used to them is because they've been there most or all of your life.

You're not comparing 22, the latest estimate is, pylons with one windmill on eyesore value, but on many associated value judgements which have more to do with the fact that one type of eyesore is relatively new, and the other not, and that you consider one type of eyesore to be useful and the other not. These have got nothing to do with either's real ranking in eyesore terms.

When people from outside the country are asked to fill in a questionnaire, they don't see all these irrelevant value judgements, they just see eyesores, and rank them accordingly, and they actually have put pylons ahead of wind turbines as eyesores.

(Actually the best figure we have now is 22 pylons for each turbine.)

No, but there are also plenty of wooden poles carrying 3-phase which criss-cross the landscape as well. I haven't included them, but they should really be included, because there are always plenty around where people live and work in the country. One example is not statistically significant, but from my bedroom window I can see without using field glasses: 4 Turbines (tips of vanes showing over hill ridge) 8 Pylons and most of the intervening cabling 6 Poles and most of the intervening cabling Certainly the non-turbine electrical hardware is by far the greatest eyesore here.

How can you complain about the cost of burying cabling to get rid of a major eyesore and make the system more reliable, and have no problem paying for the outrageous cost of nuclear power: 16.6p/kWh which probably doesn't include waste management, which itself requires indefinite subsidy by the future of the present?

I'm sorry Tony, but you really aren't being rational here, but then I suppose we shouldn't be surprised ...

More conspiracy paranoia! You've been listening to TNP too much, haven't you?

You obviously didn't bother to read or hoist in the full significance of this: "EDF's Flamanville reactor, which is under construction in France, is running four years late and at least double its original budget."

France is widely seen as being one of Europe's most pro-nuclear nations, and is not widely seen as being riddled by greens, as - if you were foolish enough to believe some of the loopier posters here - some claim the UK to be. Yet their reactor is still running 4 years late and at double the original budget.

If it's stable base-load you want, go carbon-based, the money saved by not going nuclear will leave us room to invest in other technologies such as fusion, carbon-capture, etc.

I would agree that it's probably not an option right now, but it should have been done then. Any cost incurred would long since have been repaid, written off, or whatever, and we'd now have the benefits of a more robust system and a much prettier landscape for tourists and residents alike.

Reply to
Java Jive
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Reply to
Java Jive

I did miss your previous posting abouyt Skye, but the feed to the Western Isles from Skye is not on pylons. Apart from the undersea bit it is on

33kV carring wooden poles.

Reply to
charles

Eh? We do need them. Even if you count the unmetered wind you'll struggle to get to 10 GW which is less than half the countries

*minimum* base load.

You might be happy with the lights going out for weeks when the wind doesn't blow(*) but I doubt very many others are.

43% of the UKs demand (31.15 GW) is coming from coal as I type. 25% nuke, 20% gas, 8% import, 2% everything else and 2% wind.

(*) Which to be honest is around 70 % of the time with the 30% load factor of wind generation.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

I'm talking about the feed *to* Skye, which seems to come via pylons to the corner of the Isle between Kylerhea and Kyle of Lochalsh. I think there may also be an undersea cable from just south of the latter town to Kyleakin opposite on the Isle, where the ferries used to dock before they built the bridge, but, guess what, that too is fed from overhead lines! There may be something going over the bridge itself as well. IIRC, it has a substantial maintenance void underneath the roadway.

All I really know is that all, or at least substantial parts, of the Isle lost power several times last winter during storms.

One of them was unbelievably violent ...

I was lying awake in the darkness on the top floor of the lodge, listening to it and wondering just how ominous the creaks from the roof really were, and realised that my door was opening slightly, despite the closer, with each gust. As I got up to shut it properly, I poked my nose into the corridor to see where exactly the source of such a strong draft was coming from, and by the emergency lighting noticed a door opposite was moving as well, but significantly more with each gust.

The room was occupied by a member of staff who was away. I thought: "I'd better take the liberty of shutting that for him!", but found I couldn't because it had been broken into, and the latch didn't - IYSWIM. Just then the door was momentarily wrenched out of my grasp fully open and the full horror of the devastation of his room was revealed. The window had been wrenched open, all his toiletries had blown off the window ledge into the wash-basin, and the curtains were as horizontal as the rain coming into the room which was reaching as far as the bed. I struggled several times to close the window, but every time I thought I'd succeeded, the wind ripped it open again.

As I struggled, I half expected to hear a voice outside crying: "Heathcliffe! Heathcliffe! Let me in!"

In the end I had to leave it as it was, put on my clothes, I was pretty wet anyway by this time, and find one of the lodge owners, who found a new window latch from somewhere else and fixed it as I held the torch and frame for him.

The next storm was just a few days later. The guy had come back on a nice sunny day in between, found everything soaking, opened the window and propped up all the bedding, etc, in an effort to dry it all out, and gone away again. So it all got another soaking, but at least that time I could close and latch the window for him!

You should never underestimate the power of nature up here. I take it you've seen the picture of the shed I l> I did miss your previous posting abouyt Skye, but the feed to the Western

Reply to
Java Jive

Yes, I know them.

[Snip]

Indeed not. I've seen it many times.

Missed it.

Reply to
charles

Reply to
Java Jive

probably evrybody has seen pylons, not everybody has yet seen turbines. I both cases it depnds of where they are sited. Those who use th M4 to the west of London will see a single one on an industrial park in Reading. Using the M25 near Watford reveals another single one beside a golf course. Neither of these, in my opinion are particular eyesores. But on the M74/A74M these are masses of them, as there are on the A68 south of Edinburgh. Beautiful open moorland ruined.

Reply to
charles

I suspect the one by the M4 at Reading is mostly for show, as the new business park they built on the site of the brewery claims to be "Eco-friendly", and "sustinable". If it's the 2 megawatts that it looks to be, it'll run about half the park on a good day.

It's certainly a notable landmark on the motorway.

Reply to
John Williamson

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Reply to
Java Jive

Meh, it's still upright and in one piece.

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It has since been staked down, 1 1/4" old tree stakes driven into the ground as far as possible (12" to 18") at each corner and bolted through to the frames inside. It hasn't moved since.

This event had the roof off and blown across the road:

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Reply to
Dave Liquorice

He had to extend the propellor blades on the "Great Britain"

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So maybe it was OK after that.

Reply to
harryagain

The coal will soon be gone. More efficient combined cycle gas fired plant has less heat to be rejected hence less cooling towers.

Chimneys are nowhere near as high as the pollutants are much lower.

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Reply to
harryagain

Why is it "ruined". It is not a natural landscape. It is a deforested landscape. Trees cut down to provide fuel. Virtually all our landscape is manmade. It jusy what you've got used to. As with pylons.

Reply to
harryagain

You're the idiot. It's been shown here on numerous ocasions.

Reply to
harryagain

So what?

You keep repeating your drivel don't you?

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And the cost of nuclear has gone up since then. All about decommissioning and waste disposal.

Reply to
harryagain

All of the above has been repeatedly explained to you but you are clearly too dull to understand. I have a solar passive house. I have no net energy bills. I have no petrol bills.

What have you done (apart from whining on here)? There are various government schemes to reduce home energy. Don't you know this or would your rather just sit on your arse and mewl?

When have I been against gas exploration? But we don't yet know how much there is and it is a finite amount. And it won'r be cheap. (We've discussed why here too) You seem to have an attention span of around five minutes.

Reply to
harryagain

That's the sort of stuff inside your head TurNiP.

Reply to
harryagain

As a professional boilerman don't you feel that's a bit unfair on all that heat? Being rejected and all?

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Disagreeing with you makes no one an idiot.

Reply to
Steve Firth

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