Installing (halogen) downlighters

[Richard]

Sorry if the answer to what must be a common question is buried in the FAQs but I couldn't find it.

SWMBO wishes (me) to replace a pair of nasty screwed-to-the-ceiling light fittings with a myriad of halogen downlighters to compliment the ones I will install in the kitchen.

The snag is that the nasty lights are in a single story extension with no access to the roof space, whereas I can lift the floor of the room above the kitchen.

Question: how do I install downlighters if I cannot get into the roof space?

TIA

Richard

[mike ring]

Clearly impossible, you may quote me; next question?

mike

[John Stumbles]

With difficulty, and lots of holes in the ceiling :-)

First you'll have to work out where the ceiling joists are and where you'll be fixing the lights and running cables. A metal detector can help locate the nails holding the plasterboard to the ceiling. If it's not plasterboard but lath & plaster Stop! do not pass Go, do not .... you'll just end up with a serious mess trying to work with a l&p ceiling. You'd probably do better pulling it down and replacing it with plasterboard!

You will have to drill holes a few inches to the side of the joists through which you need to pass your cables and drill with a long spade bit at as shallow an angle as you can muster (but keeping the hole far enough above the ceiling not to risk future nails or screws going into it). Buy some long spade bits (Screwfix or Toolstation do them) rather than an extension bit holder for this, approx 20mm dia is probably a good size. Get a set of downlighter hole saws and use the biggest size for cutting your access holes. Keep the bits of plasterboard you cut out and wedge them back in with chunky woodscrews to lock the cutout to the hole, and stick with filler. If you get this bit right then after a couple of fills & rubdowns and painting the access holes should be invisible.

[Lobster]

I favour Mike's answer - if I were you I would show that to SWMBO! David

[Richard]

Interesting range of replies.

I was hoping that someone would say the following:

Identify joist locations.

Drill cable-sized holes either side of each joist

Cut cable-sized channel in thickness of PB between holes.

Use hole saw to fix downlighters into PB between joists.

Thread (12V) cable between light fittings above PB except where a joist interferes and at those points plaster it into the channel.

Make one large hole in PB over location of new floor-to-ceiling cupboard to provide access for transformers.

This is what my neighbour has just done and I was wondering if it was common practice, but didn't want to influence the replies by offering it from the outset.

Mmm, back to plan 0 - whatever SWMBO decides that to be!

Thanks

Richard

[Mike]

If you're going to do that I would recommend finding the joins in the plasterboard and cutting the channel there. Otherwise you could create lots of cracking points for later.

As an easier alternative, I'd suggest those ones that run on two parallel wires. No need to thread cable above the ceiling much then.

[Andrew Chesters]

In addition to the several sensible suggestions already posted, you could just chop holes wherever you need, run the wires, stand well back and say; "Making good? Decorating? That's 'other trades', over to you my dearest".

No, on second thoughts...

[Mike]

Too right ! SWDWSIT finishes and paints all the plasterwork.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Richard, I am goindg to propse te following.

Pull the bloody ceiling down completely, lay your cables and transformers (they ASE LV right?) and connect up the sockety bits, then whack up new plasterboard, and cut holes on it.

Then get it plastered and painted, or filled linimng papered and painted, which is easier DIY, and finally fit the receptacles.

Frankly it woill probably be quicker, and plasterboard is cheap.

[Mike]

Correct

Get an exchange then :-)

[Mike]

And remember even the original SWMBO in the film became a SWDWSIT :-)

[gandalf]

---------------- That's pretty much what the electricians did when fitting 6 downlights in my kitchen. Once skimmed the whole lot looked perfect.

I watched them do some of it and if you're going to do it yourself I would chomp out the channels with a biscuit jointer rather than muck about with a pocket-hole saw like they did. Only other difference is that the feed was mains and each downlight has its own transformer which is sized to fit through the same hole as occupied by the light fitting.

[Richard]

LOL at the many replies (all helpful in various ways), which I WILL show SWMBO along with your home phone numbers ;-)

I suspect that the 'rip it down and replace' is the best. However, she only decided that she wants to go down the 'twinkly ceiling' route yesterday. Although the refit for the adjoining kitchen doesn't happen until 1 April (honest) we've got a lot to do before then and I doubt that we can achieve it all as well as replace the ceiling. But I'll talk to B-I-L (the plasterer in the family)

Thanks to all

Richard

[Ian Stirling]

Hmm. I wonder about a surface mount solution. Transformer goes in the ceiling void, cut channels using a circular saw set to 0.5mm depth of cut, used sideways (there is probably a better way), and put in copper tape to act as wires. There have to be some sort of dangly fittings, a single bulb on a few cm wire that'd work.