I'm amazed and had to tell someone...............

[Pete Cross]

I've never been happy with the flush on our loo, 2-3 goes to clear the big wads of paper my wife leaves in there...... the syphon packed in yesterday so I called at B&Q on the way home last night and spotted a conversion kit comprising push button operated flap valve to replace syphon , and a float valve to replace the ball c*ck. The differance in flow is amazing, and it refills almost silently. If these flaps are so simple ( can even be replaced without removing the cistern again ) why the heck did we have syphons in the first place. It actually uses less water as it shuts ( unless you keep the button pressed ) when the cistern is about 3/4 empty but because the water drops straight out it is much more effective.

Hats off to Fluidmaster !

Pete Cross

[IMM]

The seals of the flap can deteriorate and flap valve can seat incorrectly causing a continuous stream of water to pour down the wc. This can never occur in a siphons. The flaps uses less water, but one problem and they use a lot. There are now some low water siphons around.

A low water siphon and Torbeck does the same, and in-built safeguards to accidentally large water losses. The Fluidmasters chain has to be adjusted properly.

[Tony Bryer]

The old name for a syphon was a WWP - waste water preventer and their use was required under the same water byelaws that required overflow ("warning") pipes to discharge in a conspicuous position, i.e. to minimise waste of water from a faulty installation.

[Andy Dingley]

We used to. Thomas Crapper didn't invent the water closet, but he did invent his "Water Waste Preventer", which we now know as the syphon (he wasn't the only syphon inventor, but his became popular). Before this there were frequent wasteful leaks, and some people even left the valve tied down and permanently running.

Now AIUI, there's an old Victorian water by-law that makes a "waste proof" valve mandatory. I wonder what happened to this, and how the Yankee Flapper is seemingly now permitted ?

[Ian Stirling]

Apart from the cases it can. If the siphon is incorrectly fitted, then it can leak into the pan.

[The Natural Philosopher]

It certainly can if the overflow is tuted past teh siphon and teh ballcock goes.

Usual crud from the usual suspect.

Oh dear. Brochure of the month, here we come.

[Nigel M]

According to the Fluidmaster blurb, they are now permitted. I guess that modern materials can cope, and they have got to be better at conserving water than a system you have to flush several times.

[IMM]

incorrectly

Do you have crud on your flapper?

Do you mean the chain does not need to be adjusted? Wow!