hydro electric

There is no real; purpose built storage on the grid except Dinorwig, Cruachan et al... BUT the spinning mass of the power stations is something that can keep the grid surprisingly stable over very short duration (seconds) overloads and load variations.

Beyond that hydro and punmped will respond to price spikes by cutting into that money bank of stored water they have...thank heavens there is some sort of free market so that mechanism works at least...

The rest of the storage is in nuclear fuel rods, piles of coal and cubic meters of gas..

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher
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====snip====

I'll save you the bother. The energy storage capacity of a scaled up clockwork mainspring, even when Nitinol is used to get an eightfold improvement over the conventional spring steel alloys typically used in clocks and clockwork toys would fall woefully short of the target requirement.

If you're looking at wind up energy storage, you do much better with rubber bands[1] but even rubber band energy storage still falls far short of the requirements to store all of this free energy that has to go to unused by virtue of it being generated at inconvenient times of the day.

[1] Whilst rubber can store significantly more energy in a given volume than even a Nitinol main spring, it does have a limited service life as model aeroplane enthusiasts and catapult users know only too well. You certainly wouldn't want to be around a fully charged 1MWH rubber band energy store when the elastic snaps! :-)
Reply to
Johnny B Good

Quite. I was recently talking to a chap who'd bought an electric car five years ago. He got a range of 80 miles per charge when it was new, but it's down to 50 miles now. So those massive Tesla storage batteries, which are just thousands of individual cells connected together, will need completely replacing after say ten years at most, an even shorter life than the windmills and solar panels they're supposed to be supporting.

Reply to
Chris Hogg

No - *or alternative source*. Should have given you a clue about context, too.

Reply to
RJH

The alternative sauce is a nook like I said.

Reply to
Tim Streater

Go round the junk shops and by up all the wind up gramophones!

Reply to
Max Demian

The alternative source is nuclear or gas. Energy from such sources is offset by excess supply (from the renewable source) when the weather is favourable - it all works on long term averages not minute by minute details. In the long term energy requirements can be met by renewables even if sometimes energy is being supplied to the grid by other sources.

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Reply to
mechanic

Eh? Tell that to people in West Cumbria, not to mention the Fukushima province in Japan.

Reply to
mechanic

I'm pretty sure that road traffic is a much bigger problem in both places.

Reply to
Roger Hayter

trust you to believe in a postion that is beyond any reality-based hope.

Reply to
tabbypurr

I think the barn idea is about lopping peak demand, similar to load-shedding, rather than being able to make up for any large shortfall when it's dark or not windy?

Reply to
Andy Burns

We did, but the scaremongers got there first.

In reality Fukushima area (excluding actual reactor site) is less radioactive than Dartmoor.

As is West Cumbria.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

A bit less than that... 1.73GW and 9.1GWh capacity

Not quite, there is Foyers (305 MW, 6.3GW) and Ffestiniog (360MW,

1.3GW), and Cruachan (440MW / 10GWh)

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(So a total capacity of just under 27GWh)

Quite a good document here on storage:

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Reply to
John Rumm

In what way has it been a problem to people in either location?

Reply to
Tim Streater

Obviously. Was there a point?

Reply to
tabbypurr

Which, with a load of 40GW (see my earlier calculation) would keep the lights on in the UK for just....wait for it....40 minutes! Long enough to find the candles, Gaz lamp and matches, I suppose!

The trouble is that although Pumped Storage is generally accepted as a 'good thing', we haven't got the topography to implement it in any way sufficient to make a significant difference to stored energy relative to what's needed for an all-renewable supply, as table 5-1 on p. 15 shows. Adding up the capacities on the RH column (taking means where necessary and including a figure for Glenmuchloch of 1.7 GWh*), gives a total capacity of 136.8 GWh, which will keep the lights on for 3 hrs

25 minutes on a cold winter's evening WTWDBATSDS. Long enough to watch a bit of telly, before you retreat, shivering, to bed. (Muaitheabhal, on the Outer Hebrides, is reticent about it's capacity; plenty of puff about how many homes it'll supply (200,000), but nothing on how long for!)

But the monster and near-fantasy Strathdearn scheme proposed by the 'Scottish Scientist' would be more than adequate at 6,800 GWh**, except that it'll never be built!

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Reply to
Chris Hogg

There's a scheme to run heavy rail vehicles up a slope to store energy.

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Chris

Reply to
Chris J Dixon

In our case, where that Tesla system is, its actually there for the black starts.

Reply to
87213

Not 'nothing' IOW

Interesting, thanks - especially the exchange with 'Gilbert' - who worked on and studied the Scottish schemes - and concludes:

'It is not about have we the capacity to store renewable energy, we do. It?s about who pays for it and how much'.

Reply to
RJH

Is that a change from how it was planned then? I thought it was to even out fluctuations (at the border between regional grids?) caused by too much reliance on wind power at times of no wind, and avoid blackouts rather than make black starts?

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Reply to
Andy Burns

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