Of course, you are completely unbiased, being one of those NICEIC (or similar) registered people.
Can you say 'closed shop'? Or 'legalised protection racket'? Clearly it's a good chance for you to jack up your prices by (inaccurately) trying to scare people. Nice work if you can get it.
By promoting the use of only *qualified* electricians? No, by promoting the use of their member firms, which can have a majority of unqualified personnel.
Don't they? Why can't they get the knowledge?
So is a DIYer, if someone gets killed or injured.
I have. I've come across electricians who couldn't wire a doorbell. I've come across electricians who put in metal consumer units with no grommets on the cable entries and then leave them unearthed, but still stick their proud little "We're a member of NICEIC" sticker on the front hoping for some repeat business.
The NICEIC used to produce a report of all the errors found by their inspectors - basic errors like pendant flexes not looped round the strain relief hooks - errors committed by electricians working for their registered members.
All the more reason to DIY the job and do it properly.
Owain
Exactly - look at what we'd have had if we'd blindly followed Europe.
Owain
[snip]
Indeed.
In fact my house was previously owned by a builder/property developer. Some of the electrics were scary: ring main jointed with choc block wrapped in newspaper and plastered into wall, ring run around the room behind the skirting using flex, spurs from spurs from spurs, earth spike in shed not actually an earth spike but a steel pole that should be holding up a temp fence with the bare cable just wrapped around the steel etc etc).
Given that he had blatently ignored the gas regs when it came to the boiler in the front room I have no reason to believe he would be any more likely to take notice of Part P. He is exactly the sort of person who needs to be clamped down on and he is exactly the sort of person who will ignore it.
As it stands if I had bought this house 5 years later I wouldn't have been allowed to correct any of his bodges - how does that make sense?
Darren
Quite so - the Institutions have failed most dismally to protect the interests of the Engineers who have undergone academic and experience based acceptance to become members. They should by definition be more competent than the NVQ brigadebut Prescotts clueless gang don't recognise them. Perhaps a case for "human rights" being restricted.
Feel free to explain how it is that when working on other peoples houses we are knowledgeable professionals, yet when diying our own we dont have the knowledge.
Then feel free to explain how the current nationwide situation with electrical wiring is a safety problem at all, given that the deaths from fixed wiring are so close to zero.
You appear to have misunderstood both the content and the motivation, indicating a significant comprehension gap.
Do you know how many deaths occur per year from fixed wiring? If so, why does what you see every week frighten you?
actually
You put it right for the sake of compliance, not safety. I'm not sure you've realised that.
funny, as I've come across almost nothing but when it comes to domestic wiring. Just ask them a simple question like where theyre allowed to run wires in the plaster, over half of them cant even get that right.
NT
unqualified
I think its also a big assumption to think that they could care less. Reality is a lot of humans couldnt give a monkeys about anything but themselves, and the exams dont address that point in any way. The numerous stories of general building show clearly that a lot of pros just couldnt give a damn. DIYing eliminates most of this problem, since you get to live with the results of your work.
NT
you get to live with the results of your work.
NT No its called blissfull ignorance. the commments from owain and A hall and others are really just an attemp to justify their personal point of view. As for a cartel to raise price that is completely ridiculous there are thousands of registere electrical installers amd they compete for work so how does that jack u prices?. I have not raised any of my prices after spending about £500 o registration and a bit more on incidental costs, it isn't necessary an my prices are extremely competitive when compared with the market rate. don't need to advertise as my business comes from recommendation an repeat business so I must be doing it right. What you do display is complete ignorance of the day to day work of installation and a contemp for trades men generally which is neither justified nor correct. personally used to earn a great deal more as a senior engineer in a international company than I earn now or am likely to do but I am conten to earn a living and get satisfaction from a safe installation well done You on the other hand remind me as being the epitome of the saying, " man who keeps his counsel may be suspected of being a fool, but when h opens his mouth, he removes all doubt
-- Miketew
Not really. The statistics on the (lack of) dangers are there for anybody to read and are from independent sources as well as the government's own sources.
There is a direct link between supply, demand and price. We know that large numbers of electricians are not registering and are not continuing with electrical work. There is an inevitability that reduction in supply of "qualified" electricians together with some people no longer doing their own work will lead to an increase in demand and in price.
Cowboys will continue as before.
Possibly, or it could be that customers don't know any better and there is a shortage of supply. What does "competitive" mean? That you are the lowest bidder? Anybody can sell on low price and some people are stupid enough to buy on this basis. It is no indicator of quality of work.
I dont think that anybody here has a contempt for good and honest tradesmen. If you are feeling uncomfortable at the suggestion, I would put it to you that the issue lies with you.
Besides, do you honestly expect in a DIY newsgroup that you are going to get wide support for a position promoting hiring of tradesmen to do electrical work which people can do perfectly safely as evidenced by the lack of problems?
The dividing line between what is exempt and what is not in Part P is purely arbitrary. It is completely illogical to suggest that somebody is competent to add a socket to a spur or replace a length of wiring but not competent to install a ring final circuit. The idiots will screww up either way, and the capable will get it right. This is independent of any legislation or the impact of that on what a trade electrician might hope to gain out of it.
So you're a charitable organisation now? You'll have us in tears in a a minute.
You dont seem to be following this. There are 2 issues, and the above does eliminate that one. Knowledge/ignorance is the other issue, however the death statistics from fixed wiring show this is simply not a problem IRL. The truth that bods like you dont like to admit is that there is so much safety margin built into our wiring regs that even when people get it wrong, as they do, the death rate stays very close to zero. Again, can you tell us the annual death rate in Britain from fixed wiring? Its kinda a key question here.
This topic has been discussed here in much more depth than your muddled comments.
Its called supply and demand, basic economic concepts. Also theres the cost of part pee inspections.
so the demand for your services is way above that in a healthy free market, where businesses must advertise and compete.
And your business skills are so poor that you work for less than you know you can easily get if you do a little advertising.
Funny really.
wrong again. Im not that impressed with the kind of stuff you come out with, nor with the assorted rogues that we all know feature among tradesmen. But no, no contempt for tradesmen generally. If they can do a sensible job, as many can, respect. Its part of what I do, and I dont feel any contempt for myself. :)
Sometimes ad hominem is all thats left.
NT
Quite. You could probably walk into any house that's more than a couple of years old, and find all sorts of non compliant practice. I have never heard of a house fire as a result of fixed wiring errors. Plenty as a result of daisy chained 13A adaptors etc however.
And to put things into perspective, I can walk into *any* corner shop during October and November and purchase something that can kill, or at the very least blow a limb off. I don't see the 'Office of the Deputy Prime Minister' taking any action over that. (Personally I'm amazed that fireworks are sold to the general public at all).
opens his mouth, he removes all doubt.[/i][/color]
Sometimes ad hominem is all thats left.
You make it so easy , its obvious that brain, hand and commonsense ar not coincident in your case you absolutely prove the quotation
-- Miketew
If you have any genuine content, and evidence or reasoning to prove any point, please share it with us.
NT
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