Hot water tank

[pete]

Hi there, My copper hot water cylinder has developed a small leak near the imersion heater hole, its not the seal but the tank itself, maybe its corroded inside. As a temporary measure is there something I can use to seal it from the inside or outside. I can easily get to the leak through the hole where the inersion heater element goes.

Also when I replace the cylinder I would like to move it along with the pump and the electricly operated valves to the atic, one floor above. Is this just a case of re plumbing the pipes or are there any other things I should consider. There would still be about 4 feet head above the cylinder to the header tanks.

Thanks Pete

[Doctor Drivel]

Look at:

the boiler needs replacing replace it with a combi and use the combi water section for shower only to give pressure showers instantly, and have the combi heat the cylinder as per usual. This arrangement will fill baths well and you can have the cold water taken off it too.

[Guy King]

The message from "pete" contains these words:

Be very careful about putting hot water tanks in lofts. People have died from sudden bursts landing on them in bed. It's bad enough if you're downstairs, but you're generally awake and not lurking in your pit!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Since it's made of copper it can be soldered easily. But of course not with water in it - or at least close to the part to be soldered. You could cut a patch out of a bit of copper pipe - cut along the length and flatten out. Heat it to red hot first to anneal. Then shape to the curve of the tank. Tin both parts , get someone to hold it in place with a wood rod etc then sweat in place adding some solder round the joint till you get a decent fillet.

That should work fine.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The OP will now have a prime example of dribble giving his standard answer regardless of the question.

Q:- What time is it?

Dribble:- The only way is to fit a combi.

[Brian Sharrock]

Hmm; I've had my hot water tank/cylinder in the loft for nigh on thirty years ... [this is really entering 'tempting fate mode' ) with never a problem. Can you give _any_ specific cases of cause of death being cited as 'sudden burst landing on them in bed'? How many people are so effected each year? What is the cause of death ... over heating?, drowning?; crushing weight? - cascade of ten/twenty gallons of water falling eight-odd feet ? Is it a piercing injury or a blunt-force trauma?

[Andy Hall]

I think you might be thinking of the Cornwall case

was not as a result of having the HW cylinder in the roof but of a faulty immersion heater, boiling water ending up in an improperly supported roof cold water tank.

[Owain]

The incident which has been discussed here before was a plastic *cold* water tank in the loft. A failed thermostat, or something of that ilk, caused the water in the hot water cylinder to boil and expand into the cold water tank, which became full of boiling water and failed, depositing its contents through the ceiling on a couple in bed, one of whom died.

Owain

[dom]

That's a bizarre and tragic accident. Maybe they switched the tank off at night because they knew that the water got too hot if they didn't.

A thermostat failing in the "on" position is an example of a single failure with potentialy serious consequences. Do immersion heaters have a secondary cutout like a meltable link?

Even so, the chances of a cold tank progressively filled with hot water, failing suddenly and catastrophicaly rather than progressively - must be slight.

[Brian Sharrock]

Andy; thanks for your encyclopaedic knowledge .... now, as I read your referenced URL the incident was caused by a _cold_ water tank in the loft. The agent was the over-heating of the hot water (cylinder?) by a faulty immersion heater-thermostat system that produced expansion water which travelled up into the _Cold_ water storage tank. Methinks that if the hot-water cylinder had been located on the ground floor a similar result might occur.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'd say the chances of a ventilated cylinder 'bursting' are very remote unless it gets pressurized in some way. Leaking slightly is far more likely.

And of course you might be having a nap on a couch in the living room directly underneath one in the bathroom. ;-)

[Brian Sharrock]

Presumably , 'boiling hot' water would have 'floated' on top of the cold water in the tank whose ball-c*ck valve would have been shut? Any excess 'hot' water would have added to the weight of the tank - which, according to Andy's referenced URL, was not supported adequately. {I've looked at my cold water tank and suppose that another twenty-odd kilo's (weight) of water could be poured in after the ball-c*ck valve has shut - but: I'd expect the overflow pipe to limit the total amount. }

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I've a feeling there is more to it, given they had gas central heating and everyone knows that is a cheaper way to heat the water.

Modern ones do. However, the noise they make when they boil would tell most there's a serious problem long before danger.

ITYM 'unique'. So expect a part X to cover it insisting all immersion heaters are inspected every week at the customer's expense. A new trade body is to be set up to oversee this.

[Andy Hall]

Following this, immersion heaters do now have an additional safety mechanism.

This one seemed to be a combination of the failed heater, the occupier ignoring odd sounds from the water and the tank not having been fitted on a sound base in the first place.

[tony sayer]

In article , Brian Sharrock writes

Probably the cold water tank was anything but cold and the thing being plastic just melted and gave way....

[Doctor Drivel]

This is the bad side of the Internet as fools like Richard Cranium are allowed to post. This is total tripe. A cylinder has to be brazed, not soldered. If it is ruptured it must be "replaced".

[Doctor Drivel]

[Steve Firth]

Utter shit.

Oh, you just did.

[Doctor Drivel]

Same old shitkicker, just another day.

[Andy Hall]

Yes of course it would.