home improvement dilemma

[brugnospamsia]

Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and can't see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

Having had the roof rebuilt, the 140 year old upstairs ceilings were shot and I found it made sense to completely replace them with new timbers and foil-backed plasterboard.

I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to back and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so the replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and hangers. I plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers in my area tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded boards (I plan to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).

Having lived in the street so long, my observations make me doubt any of the other houses have had so much trouble expended on them ...

Am I completely barking ?

thanking you in anticipation ....

[Rob Morley]

Not if you're doing the work yourself and you're going to be living there for a while - you want it good to use, you're not after quick profit from resale. I'd be inclined to investigate the possibility of replacing the joists without using hangers though - is it out of the question to cut through one of the supporting walls so that the joists could be slid into place?

[Mary Fisher]

No.

You're doing what you want for your circumstances.Nothing else is important.

Mary

[Andrew Gabriel]

My brother had a similar situation with a bouncy floor. When he was getting a full-sized grand piano (he's a musician), we all had concerns about the floor strength. He had the floorboards taken up, and new joists added in between the existing ones. Then the original floor was relayed. In his case, the downstairs ceilings had all been replaced a few years before, and further replacement was avoided, although one or two minor repairs were required where the odd plasterboard nail had shot out when the floor was being nailed down.

[Richard Faulkner]

In message , brugnospamsia writes

Why not have a steel bar fitted below the ceiling, and bedded into the walls. This would certainly take any bounce out, and removes the need to replace all the joists and flooring.

You would probably need to get a structural engineer to specify the steel bar, and its' bedding, and you may need building regs approval.

No

[brugnospamsia]

You mean at 90 degrees ?

thanks for the suggestion, but I'd sooner not lower the ceiling (and it might well look suspicious to a future purchaser if the floor looks "shored up" !) ... the other problem is that the party walls are only one brick so it would cause problems - even if I got past the party wall act .... I reckon there wouldn't be much difference in the cost either - and the ceiling needs replacing anyway ...

It feels a bit radical but my brother tells me he regrets not replacing his upstairs floors - I think it may have been because he was so relieved they hadn't been touched by the dry rot that was eating the whole house when he bought it .....

[brugnospamsia]

I'm afraid the brickwork is so dodgy I wouldn't want to try - add to that the re-rendering that would be needed to hide the work ....

Are you hinting it may be difficult to get the floor sufficiently well attached to the walls ?

I suspect we will use wall plates and resin anchors ...

[brugnospamsia]

thanks for the reassurance :-)

[Mogweed]

As some of you will know if you've seen some of my other threads in this group, I'm renovating my late mother's 134-year old mid-terraced house and I heard a very interesting idea the other day although I don't intend to do this myself.

The houses around here are two-storey with ceilings 11ft plus high and I now know of three seperate houses (one of which suffered from the same non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors as yours) where they have completely taken out the downstairs ceilings/upstairs floors (so that you can stand at ground level and look directly up to the upstairs ceilings [or roof, in one case]) and put in new ceilings/floors at lower heights, thereby creating a three-storey house from a two-storey one.

Apparently the cost in all three cases has been around the £20 or £21k mark from start to finish and none of the householders did it with a view to selling it afterwards, just a way of improving their homes and getting more space to live in. The only reason I know is that the lads who are doing my double glazing for me worked on all three of those projects as well.

So, are you barking? Of course not. Everybody has their own ideas of what they want.

Mogweed.

[Pete C]

What's on the upstairs floors at the moment? I'd retain the original floorboards if possible, a buyer might want to have an original wood floor upstairs.

Also don't the non level bouncy floors would give the house a bit of character?

If you're replacing the downstairs ceiling you could 'sister' the existing joists with some extra timber to stiffen them up a bit, doubling the width will double the stiffness.

Why not ask your neighbours? If they've done OK for 140 years they can't be too bad.

cheers, Pete.

[Mary Fisher]

Is 'sister' a recognised term for that process? I've never heard of it but it's good and I don't know of another.

It certainly works, we did it in our loft.

:-)

Mary

[Dave Plowman (News)]

One friend's bouncy and creaky floors were caused by woodworm...

So I'd check it is actually a design 'fault'.

[brugnospamsia]

I'm likely to damage quite a few lifting them whatever I do to stiffen the floor - unless I worked from below I suppose (the Lath and plaster ceiling will come down by itself if I don't remove it myself)

is the style of house I have. I bet there isn't a single house in my street with stripped boards upstairs - half a dozen have been for sale recently and the online photos show carpet in every case ... though with the prices at the insane level they are now (I wouldn't be able to buy it now if I was starting out !), perhaps I have to look to a more affluent kind of buyer ....

I've considered this but the beam ends have been half-way into solid brick walls for 140 years ... It's actually going to be less bother to go the whole hog ....

[brugnospamsia]

Just as well to "Cut it out, man, cut it out" then ! ;-)

[/Lancelot Spratt]

[Mary Fisher]

in the 1st floor veranda of course ...

She had the sitting room on the first floor.

Mary

[Richard Faulkner]

In message , brugnospamsia writes

Yes.

I've done this with 2 floors/ceilings in a big Victorian semi, and a future purchaser wouldnt know it had been done. My party walls are only

1 brick thick aswell, but we just did it carefully and the neighbours were fine about it.

Anyway - only a suggestion from experience

[brugnospamsia]

There are hundreds of 'em round here - that photo was apparently taken in Bristol at the turn of the century showing a history of decay I may at last be in the process of reversing ;-)

Before they put

It's funny you should say that - I have a long standing fantasy about a two storey atrium ...

[Mary Fisher]

Daughter's was in York - streets and streets of them next to the railway line. Built for railways workers.

er - looks round - we're not allowed to talk about our fantasies here!

Mary

[Pete C]

Yes, just work from below.

Carpet is cheeep but in some rooms I'd prefer stripped floorboards with a bordered sisal rug, I think that's more classy.

No need to take the ends into the wall, it's just to stiffen the existing joists rather than reduce the load on them. Could be worth getting the blessing of an structural engineer.

Try asking on the forums at 'Period Property' to get some feedback and more ideas.

cheers, Pete.

[Pete C]

Hi,

Not sure for houses but it's a well known method of repairing broken ribs in wooden boats.

cheers, Pete.