Gridwatch on TV

[The Natural Philosopher]

No.

If you are interested keep tabs on Euan Mearns site

[Tim Streater]

What method of energy storage doesn't involve doing that, when what you start with is electrical energy? As I posted before, we don't have it, we've been looking for it for 100 years or more, and despite that the way some people (not you, necessarily) talk, you'd imagine the solution exists but that perversely we are not deploying it.

[Nick]

Obviously we need Nuclear, probably fast breeder, or what ever the name is now.

Normally we would expect technologies like wind and solar to improve in cost efficiency as we understand them more. It seems prudent to devote investment at this time. Also temporary storage may not be economic now but it does seem to be worth investing in.

[The Natural Philosopher]

We understood wind well enough to scrap it 150 years ago..

No, it doesn't.

No, it isn't. That's why we haven't done it already.

When the CEGB built Dinorwig, the calculation was that it would save a power station and cost slightly less. It was, in the whole UK, the best site we could find, it still cost over half a billion. Its just about capable of duplicating one nuclear power station for a couple of hours of peak demand.

Only if you start with the ridiculous premise that 'we have to have renewables at any price' do any of these hare brained schemes make sense.

Not much has really changed in power generation in the last 50 years, fundamentally. Wind is still as rubbish as it ever was, solar is expensive and likely to stay that way, and the old stalwarts of coal gas and uranium still do the best job.

[Nick]

The argument is not that we need renewables but that we need to cut carbon emissions. We also need to balance power generation in case a problem occurs with any one particular source.

The case for carbon emissions causing global warming has been established. The amount of carbon emissions has increased massively.

[Chris Hogg]

So why hasn't the temperature?

[Tim Streater]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha etc etc.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , Brian-Gaff writes

I believe there are suitable valleys in Wales for pump storage but politically inaccessible.

[dennis]

There was a rise in temps and a rise in CO2 so its claimed CO2 causes it. However the CO2 has risen the last few years but the temps haven't.

When you can show why then let us know.

[duck]

Global Land-Ocean Temperature Index (C) (Anomaly with Base: 1951-1980)

------------------------------------------------------------------------ Year Annual_Mean 5-year_Mean

---------------------------------- 2000 0.42 0.53 2001 0.55 0.53 2002 0.63 0.55 2003 0.62 0.61 2004 0.55 0.62 2005 0.69 0.63 2006 0.63 0.61 2007 0.66 0.63 2008 0.54 0.64 2009 0.65 0.63 2010 0.72 0.63 2011 0.61 0.65 2012 0.63 0.67 2013 0.66 * 2014 0.75 * 2015 * *

[dennis]

So plot CO2 vs temp for the last 100 years.

[Chris Hogg]

If I cut-and-paste all the data from your link above and put it into EXCEL,

it's obvious that warming ceased at around 2000 or shortly after. The individual yearly data points are in green, the black line is the five year moving average, both data sets taken directly from your link.

It is very similar to this data,

taken from and scroll down, and is the HadCRUT4 monthly global surface air temperature estimate (blue) and the monthly atmospheric CO2 content (red) according to the Mauna Loa Observatory, Hawaii, up to September this year. It has been developed by the Climatic Research Unit (University of East Anglia) in conjunction with the Hadley Centre (at the UK Met Office). Note that the atmospheric CO2 concentration continues to increase steadily beyond year 2000, but the global temperature doesn't.

The graph is really very similar to lots of others that get published from various sources, such as

and . Although there is some indication on them as to the sources of those graphs, I no longer have the links.

Your error was in being selective with your data. It's a mistake often made by those who believe global warming is continuing, when on a wider time scale, it isn't.

[The Natural Philosopher]

cost benefit says they are not really suitable

[The Natural Philosopher]

Actually we don't.

That only happens with renewables where all the windfarms die together and all the solar farms sulk at sunset.

Ordinary power stations do not all go off together.

See what you did? You ASSUMED renewable energy again.

No, it hasn't. It's been pretty much refuted. Or at least reduced to an issue of so little significance its not worth spending a 9 bob note on.

Yes, So?

>

[The Natural Philosopher]

And the famous adjusted data set again!

[duck]

If warming ceased around 2000, or shortly after as you claim, you then need to explain why the 5 year mean anomaly as against

1951-80, starting in 2002, was 0.55, up from 0.53 in 2001, followed by 0.61,0.62,0.63

anther decade added

1990 0.44 0.36 1991 0.43 0.33 1992 0.23 0.33 1993 0.24 0.34 1994 0.32 0.32 1995 0.46 0.37 1996 0.35 0.45 1997 0.48 0.47 1998 0.64 0.46 1999 0.42 0.50 2000 0.42 0.53 2001 0.55 0.53 2002 0.63 0.55 2003 0.62 0.61 2004 0.55 0.62 2005 0.69 0.63 2006 0.63 0.61 2007 0.66 0.63 2008 0.54 0.64 2009 0.65 0.63 2010 0.72 0.63 2011 0.61 0.65 2012 0.63 0.67 2013 0.66 * 2014 0.75 * 2015 * *

------------------------------------

The claim being made, which was very specific, was that warming had ceased since 2000 or shortly after. In which context your reference to a "wider time scale" is somewhat puzzling.

[The Natural Philosopher]

statistically if you use the satellite data sets before they get 'adjusted' politically, there has been no *statistically significant* warming since 1998.

[F]

And is installed.

[F]

Not beta. Through the usual 'Please update' message.

[Theo]

You're paying 10x more than I do for servers. For instance I have one of these:

$20 per month/$200 year, in Atlanta Quad core dedicated server (HP BL460C with dual Xeon 5150 - ie a 2006-era top end server)

16GB RAM 500GB SATA disc (I didn't order a second drive but it so happens that there are two 500GB drives in my chassis and software RAID is a thing...) Gigabit port with 5TB/month iLO remote management (which is a bit pants, needs ancient Java or ActiveX to manage - but it's good enough to boot from CD image over the net. It is at least still getting security updates)

If that's a bit too high end for you, try one of the offers here:

All my other VPSes from various suppliers listed there are ballpark $15/year (256MB) or EUR3/month (2GB). At that price it's quite easy to end up with a collection!

Theo