Going rate for boxing day repair.

[Andy Hall]

I think that there are several things here.

- First of all, there is where the individual sits in terms of remuneration in comparison with others in general. Ignoring the hours worked for a moment, you could justifiably feel aggrieved. However, there are always going to be people who receive more and less for the same number of hours worked. This is a sad or a good fact of life, but I am not sure that it represents a rip-off.

- The second factor is the number of hours that you are expected or choose to work.

- The third is what happens when you are asked to work unsocial hours, e.g. over Christmas. Then the issue is how much more do I get relative to my normal situation for working this period. If you have a situation where you are not getting that much more for this than a regular day, then I suppose you could view that somebody who is being remunerated or remunerating themselves at three to four times their normal rate as ripping off. Again it's relative, though.

I can understand that it must seem like that. I suppose it would seem less so if you sat in the middle of the pay spectrum.

I think that it depends on where you sit. I don't know what the overhead figures are, but don't forget that self employed people have a lot of addiitonal overheads and carry the risk of dead time where they are not making money.

Anybody has the option to go and do the training and become a gas fitter/heating installer. There is a shortage. People have changed career and industry to do it.

There are some statutorily related services performed in the private sector where the state does effect price control - MOT testing is an example - there is a max. fee. However, in that case, the job is very well defined. Taking gas fitting as an example, it would not be practical to have statutorily set prices for installing a boiler for example, because the amount and difficulty of work varies. Fitters would always think that whatever the figure was it was not enough and customers would think it's too much. The only practical solution is to let the market set the pricing.

Towards the other end of the scale, I know of commercial lawyers who charge and are able to get £200 per hour. For what they do, I think it's a rip off. Everything is relative.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Niall]

Do you consider you were adequately compensated for what you did?

They don't have a monopoly, they just have to be registered (at a cost no doubt). Anyone is free to get registered and set up charging below the going rate. But they don't. Funny, that...

It won't get any cheaper; Public liability insurance keeps going up by

1000s of % every year. And the guys who administer *that* wouldn't get out of bed for 35 quid an hour in normal working hours.

[Dave Liquorice]

Short days then? No I'm not being sarcastic, I regulary do 13+hr days the norm being 12 for 5 or 6 days on the trot, yes a 60 to 70hr week. Working Time Directive pah!

150 + 20% tax + 7% (I think) NI, + pension, lets say =A3200 gross. Remember that the amount quoted for our plumber friend would be gross...

This is normal for wage slaves is it not?

Nett. B-) But this is double time so somewhat less than the minimum wage, even going to the rough gross figure it's still less than the minimum wage. Something doesn't add up...

Which is what? Perhaps you are being ripped off by your employer, see above. B-)

IMHO overheads would be more than that, the true cost of a vehicle is about 50p/mile (see the AA site) by the time you have taken into account depreciation, insurance, maintenance, road tax, fuel etc. ISTR that the OP said the travel time was 30 mins in total, average of

30mph so 15 miles at 50p/mile Oh dear =A37.50 just to keep the vehicle on the road...

Then you have the cost of public liabilty insurance, equipment insurance, professional indemnity, CORGI membership, oh and tools. I wouldn't expect much change out of =A33,000 for the insurance side.

Depends, if you enjoy what you do then then money isn't the reason you do the job. If you don't like it, become a plumber. B-)

[Boaz]

This thread brings back memories of the early 70's, three day weeks 'comparitive wage' strikes etc. An era which totally p'd me off! I had just finished a six year apprenticeship, having lived on a pittance of a wage, 'knowing' in the long run I wouild be 'earning' only to be met by strikers (cap in hand) begging for contributions (some cases, demanding ). I became totally demoralised & disallusioned, why should I have "educated" myself, only to find I would be earning the same as a 'binman'!

Brad.

[PoP]

"It depends".

If the person is a sole trader then he may have the very real problem of filling his 40 hour week with paid work during the year.

If he operates via a Ltd company then that £35 per hour is not his salary, and he may still have the problem of filling his 40 hour week. It is an income stream where he has to pay not only his salary but all the costs of running a Ltd company. For example, an employee of a Ltd company (even if you own the company outright) has to pay employERs national insurance (~11%) whilst the employee pays his employEEs national insurance. And you have to pay for things like indemnity insurances, corporation tax, accountants fees, and so on.

The question I always ask of people who have a problem with these traders is - if it is so good why on earth aren't you doing it????? It is all very well having a soapbox position on these things, but at the end of the day your personal responsibility is to look after you and yours, not the rest of the population. If that means you charge above the subsistence line to look after your family then so be it.

And notwithstanding that people who get paid more also tend to spend more to keep others in jobs. You presumably want your salary to rise towards the average in society? Okay - two ways of doing this. One is to figure out a way of increasing your take. The other (Labour) way is to reduce the average so that you are nearer that point. Unfortunately it doesn't work (like Labour) because the very well off still manage to find routes around the taxation barrier and the gap between rich and poor gets wider.

Plus you have a choice about these things. You phone someone and he quotes a figure. If you don't like it you phone someone else. Repeat endlessly until you find a figure that is acceptable to you.

Alternatively, you barter. Whilst it probably would not work in the majority of cases you may be surprised to learn that tradespeople also have their families to feed - and if you were told £140 for a job and you came back and said "how's about £100?" then you might just win something in your favour.

You chose the right profession, or you wouldn't be doing it.

PoP

Replying to the email address given by my news reader will result in your own email address being instantly added to my anti-spam database! If you really want to contact me try changing the prefix in the given email address to my newsgroup posting name.....

[Andy Hall]

That really depends on whether the hours that you work (even averaged over a period) are under your control.

If you are in an employment contract where the hours are stipulated then working time legislation (such as it is) should apply.

OTOH, if you are self employed or if you are in a management position where you effectively control your own hours then that is a different matter.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Mary Fisher]

How much would you charge?

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Possibly.

I've had to browbeat Spouse to allow more than £30 a day for his (skilled) labour alone.

This morning he's reluctantly agreed to be more realistic from this year.

We all choose what to charge and what to spend on what goods and services we provide and purchase.

We, the Fishers, wouldn't pay a gas fitter to do that job because Spouse can do it himself and because we can't justify the expenditure. But I don't feel that Ed's price was high for the circumstances, as someone else said, the job wasn't life-threatengly urgent. Very few are.

Mary

[Dave Liquorice]

When I'm working they are not under my control but I choose when I work, being freelance.

Even if I was staff or long term contract the UK government version of the Working Time Directive allows for workers to "opt out" but doesn't give workers who refuse to "opt out" any real protection...

Yes there are some jobs where "continuity of service", such as the emergency services and *front line* utility supply to essential buildings, hospitals etc (just for example) does mean that particular workers may need to work long hours. But IMHO making television/radio programmes of film production can no way be considered in the same category.

[John Woodhall]

Short days then? No I'm not being sarcastic, I regulary do 13+hr days the norm being 12 for 5 or 6 days on the trot, yes a 60 to 70hr week. Working Time Directive pah!

150 + 20% tax + 7% (I think) NI, + pension, lets say £200 gross. Remember that the amount quoted for our plumber friend would be gross...

This is normal for wage slaves is it not?

Nett. B-) But this is double time so somewhat less than the minimum wage, even going to the rough gross figure it's still less than the minimum wage. Something doesn't add up...

Yes I agree it is a net figure, but, It is £6.00 an hour single time I was paid double time.

[John Woodhall]

Paramedic. Funny you should say that, as I do feel as if I am being ripped off by my employer. But then again I consider myself on an above average wage where I live. The £6.00 an hour net is a single rate. Which is better than I can get most places.

As someone else has said though, if my soapbox gets too slippery I can always change trades. :-)

[PoP]

That was probably me rushing out a reply yesterday (I used the word 'soapbox' somewhere yesterday :)).

You have my sympathy. Just under 2 years ago we had the services of a paramedic for my son who broke his femur in a skateboard accident. On that day I would have been happy for the attending medical personnel to be paid 10 times the NMW - after tax.

I wasn't aware that paramedic reward was that low. Sorry to hear that. I suppose paramedic is a trade that you can't really outsource, or maybe I'm wrong - I don't have any knowledge of the employment structure of the medical profession.

BTW, change of topic. As a paramedic have you heard of something called 'Message in a bottle'? I don't want to give any clues because I would like to know whether this is advertised well enough within the emergency services - I'll reveal more later.

PoP

Replying to the email address given by my news reader will result in your own email address being instantly added to my anti-spam database! If you really want to contact me try changing the prefix in the given email address to my newsgroup posting name.....

[Dave Plowman]

When I first started work for BBC TV working on Boxing Day and New Year's day were commonplace, since these are busy days sports wise. And there was no extra payment involved. You were, however, given a number of 'extra' days leave equal to the number of bank holidays. Only the BBC would consider *one* day off the equal to working Boxing Day etc with no extra money involved.

Now I'm freelance. A couple of years ago I was asked to work on a live

*very* minority shopping type satellite prog on New Years day. I got them up to 1400 quid for a 12 hour shift. And felt no guilt whatsoever.

[ARWadsworth]

Plasterers have a monopoly on plastering. But you do not need an emergency plasterer, hence the price on Boxing Day for someone you do need.

-- Adam

adamwadsworth@(REMOVETHIS)blueyonder.co.uk

[Dave Plowman]

I must be missing something. To reduce the 'income' of the better off would mean increasing income tax and changing the banding. Just when did this happen?

Do you also believe the last Tory lot reduced taxes?

[PoP]

No. But at least the income generation to which I belonged did not feel persecuted.

PoP

Replying to the email address given by my news reader will result in your own email address being instantly added to my anti-spam database! If you really want to contact me try changing the prefix in the given email address to my newsgroup posting name.....

[Niall]

Then there's dentists. For dental work the NHS only pays part of the cost. You have to be registered, which means paying for regular checkups, otherwise you cannot obtain treatment from them. Imagine the press coverage if plumbers worked like that.

"We will only clear your choked drains if you are a registered customer, which means you have to pay us to check your drains every 3 months." Nice deal.

[Andrew]

In article , John Woodhall writes

Do you mean ambulance driver with some additional first-aid skills ?. I used to be a Haematology technician and had to do 24-hour oncall shifts for £1.50 an hour. You knew what the financial 'rewards' were before you joined. Unlike East Germany or Soviet Russia you had a choice. PS a good many nurses have discovered that if they leave the NHS and work for an agency they get paid far more, but would horrified if they knew what the agency was charging the Health Trust for their work. Computer programmers did it for years until T Blair plc. decided to introduce IR35 and hand out 200,000 fast track visas to any passing Indian (or African) programmer. It's called market forces I believe.

[Andrew]

In article , Mary Fisher writes

If you stuff your car into a solid object on Xmas day, tip hot Turkey fat over your toes, come a cropper on your skiing holiday during your 14 day break (typical for most city offices) you will be glad that our paramedic friend will cart you off to hospital where, depending on what sort of hospital it is (Teaching or 'the rest') you will receive, at no extra cost to yourself the undivided attention of a lot of highly trained (Teaching hospital) or not so highly trained (the rest), but by your standards, appallingly badly paid experts.

[Andrew]

In article , Dave Plowman writes

Wow, £1400 and only 3 'viewers'.