Honeywell V4073A1062 (was, erroneously V4073A6022) follow up

Just thought I'd add a few extra thoughts on solving my zone valve problem(s).

First off being to correct the part number (Doh!). The second being that the perceived wisdom of replacing the complete valve assembly instead of using the upgrade kits when both the rubber ball *and* the synchron motor need to be replaced[1] doesn't always apply since it isn't always the most economic economic measure based on the grounds that two such kits can work out dearer than the cheaper 22mm compression fittings only version of the V4073A.

Whilst this would be true when all the pipework is 22mm, this is not the case when, as in my system, two of the pipes are 28mm requiring additional space consuming adapters or else the acquisition of the more expensive original V4073A1062 'drop-in' replacement part (£100 + VAT!).

I can buy the necessary 40003916-003 replacement powerhead from Amazon for a 'mere' £37.89 & FREE Delivery and the Honeywell 40003918-007 Conversion / Repair Kit from heatingcontrolsonline for a mere £18.71 (vat inclusive price) with economy delivery of £2.99 +VAT (£3.59) making a total expenditure in this example of £60.19, just under half the cost of an original V4073A1062 and right in the ballpark of a cheap 22mm only V4073A.

It may even be possible to effect an even cheaper repair if it proves possible to cannibalise the ball part from the the Honeywell 40003918-007 Conversion / Repair Kit leaving me the option of fitting a 10 quid replacement synchron motor for the original motorhead.

I'll check out my local CH/Plumbing suppliers for the the Honeywell

40003918-007 Conversion / Repair Kit first before ordering on line. I might be able to ascertain the viability of cannibalising the ball part without having to place an on-line order if my local supplier is obliging enough to disclose this option (or let me 'finger the goods'). [1] I mentioned the peculiar effect that the spring return was detrimentally effected by the orientation of the unit. This should have been all the hint I needed to determine that the gearbox bearings were badly worn after all and that a replacement synchron motor would be a wise investment.

That doesn't change the fact that the primary culprit remains the poor condition of the rubber ball making this a prior condition to any investment in a new motor.

Reply to
Johnny B Good
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I managed to cure a similar problem (radiators coming only the hot water should be) by just scraping the magnetite from around the port holes. Of course, if the ball in yours is visibly worn, it's probably not worth taking the chance, seeing that you have to drain the system to try each fix. But if your ports look black, give them a gentle scrape.

Reply to
Etaoin Shrdlu

I was going to suggest the same as Roger Mills, that you should consider using a pair of two port valves, and configuring the pipework as an "S" plan.

My pair of Honeywell valves are 40 years old! The actuator heads are non removable.

Shades of the Ship of Theseus (or Trigger's Broom), I have replaced their motors and microswitches several times over the years, but the "wet" valve part are both original and have never given any trouble.

I have never dismantled a three port type, but I know they are regarded as less reliable than the two port version. There isn't a rubber ball gismo in mine.

Reply to
Graham.

Thanks for that advice, Etaoin [1].

I did scrub the pipe openings and the innards of the valve body with one of those miniature brass wire brushes to clean the black coating off, mainly concentrating on the pipe entry points to ensure a leak free fitting.

I can't recall how thorough I was in cleaning the valve seats themselves so I'll be checking those when I next pull the valve out of the pipework to finish the repair. Obviously, making sure that the valve seats are crud free will be a vital part of the ball replacement exercise so your 'heads up' is well appreciated.

I'm not too bothered by having to part drain down the system for this job. Indeed, I only bothered refitting the valve and refilling in order to check whether my 'fettling' by itself had provided any sort of improvement, being the optimist that I am. The best I could say was that I hadn't made it (noticeably) any worse. :-(

If my sense of optimistic curiosity hadn't got the better of me, I'd have happily left it in a state of disassembly since we're at that time of the year when it can remain that way for the next two or three months and I can seek the parts at my leisure with absolutely no urgency whatsoever. A rare privilege as far as most CH/HW system DIY repair jobs tend to go, a privilege I intend to enjoy to the full. :-)

In the meantime, I've narrowed down my options to fitting a new rubber ball (ideally, sourced from a supplier who supplies *just* the rubber ball on its own but more likely a case of cannibalising one from the later repair conversion kit circa 20 quid) and replacing the worn out synchro motor (13 quid or so from my local ToolSatan).

I have grave doubts as to being able to buy just the ball on its own so will likely go for the repair kit and hope the ball can be swapped into the old valve body. If this turns out to be a No-Go, I'll simply order a new controller head to allow me to use the repair/upgrade kit as intended. Since I'm in no hurry, I can afford to order these items separately according to *actual* need. If I'm very lucky, it might only cost me a 13 quid motor and a 19 quid repair/upgrade kit.

I was hoping that someone might have been able to confirm whether replacement balls on their own are still, if they ever were, an available option or, alternatively, whether the ball used by the repair/upgrade kit is the same as the one used in the original design.

It certainly looks a very good possibility but I have no definite proof this will be true. No doubt the ball will be the same diameter but Honeywell might well have had the foresight to use a different sized spindle in order neatly sabotage any attempts by skinflint DIYers to effect a really cheap repair and to enhance sales of replacement power heads. I may find out soon enough if they'd had the wit to close off such a relatively cheap repair route.

To further complicate things, when I was perusing ToolSatan's book of parts, I noticed a cheaper 3 port motorised zone valve with 28mm compression fittings made by Sunvic for a mere £63.93 (VAT inclusive price) which looks like a drop in replacement for the Honeywell part. Having to fit a 28mm to 22mm reducer on the HW port being the only minor (if technically acceptable) downside AFAICS. I noticed they also offered a Corgi 3 port mid position valve for a mere £49.88 but only in the 22mm compression fitting version.

The Sunvic part omits the phrase 'mid position' but the picture shows the marking "Uni-share" in between arrows pointing to the A and B ports which may simply mean it can only operate in a simplex mode (either/or) or a badly phrased indication that it can *share* the flow (as in split it).

I guess I'm going to have to do more searching on parts/model numbers to get the required detailed info on these items[2] before I can make a final decision. As much as I'd like to 'drill down' to the most optimal repair solution, given the massive amount of time I can squander on this quest, I'm still tempted to shell out a reasonable wodge of cash on a "quick fix" if only to to get it over and done with, provided the extra spend isn't too excessive compared a viable 'cheapest repair' option.

That 40003916-003 replacement powerhead from Amazon for a 'mere' £37.89 & FREE Delivery isn't actually made by Honeywell but by a company called Banico. The pictures reveal the model number to be H-ZVM with the description "Actuator for mid-position valves" and it looks like a very good 'Chinese Copy' of the Honeywell part. Strangely, amongst the many variants of the V4073A it can replace, it includes the 1062 version which can only be true after the upgrade/repair kit has been fitted.

The worrying thing is that just about every on-line supplier quotes anywhere from 65 quid plus VAT right up to 80 quid plus VAT for the Honeywell part. The price looks almost too good to be true except for the fact that we all know how much piss take is factored into the retail pricing of Honeywell parts (and that of the other major Central heating parts manufacturers).

They say you get what you pay for but in this case, both the Banico and the Honeywell powerheads seem to be using identical tin boxes and the actual motor/gearbox used is the identical design that's been around for the best part of the last half century and, like the microswitches, must be commodity parts of pretty well identical quality (but I'm prepared to be corrected on this matter - comments anyone?).

I'm rather hoping I can report a final outcome that confirms that the ball in the repair/upgrade kit *does* fit the older valve after all, meaning a cheaper repair can be effected by a new motor and the repair kit without the need to spend money on a whole new powerhead. Something well worth knowing if it turns out to be true. :-)

Whatever the outcome, I'll report back. It'll still be useful to know that the repair/upgrade kit can't be utilised in this way - saves any pointless speculation by others who may be tempted by this possibility in the future.

[1] I'd have used a more user friendly name if you had offered one in your missing sig line but I guess we're stuck with the typesetter's "Fill- in" text used to place-mark errors. [2] One piece of *useful* info would be the overall dimensions to determine whether or not I'd need to 'stretch' the existing pipework to reach the couplings. More measurements and more googling it is then. :-(
Reply to
Johnny B Good

That's useful to know (sadly, in hindsight - that 3 port mid-position valve provided good service for the first two decades of its life before gracefully failing - no sudden catastrophic failure). The S plan option is a choice best made in the initial implementation it seems to me.

Considering that the rest of the CH system will be half a century old by the time a new valve has clocked up a couple of decades of trouble free service, such an upgrade may well fail to realise its full RoI value when the rest of the system around it starts expiring from old age. In any case, the cost of the parts would have to be at least as low as that of a replacement V4073A1062 before I'd even consider such a job.

BTW, I wonder what those 2 port valves use in place of a rubber ball? Could it be as simple as a rubber faced disc attached via a ball joint on the end of an actuator arm?

Reply to
Johnny B Good

====huge snip====

I popped into my local "Plumb Centre" this afternoon and got an excellent deal on the Honeywell 40003918-007 Conversion / Repair Kit, just 13 quid and a few pence. It's on overnight order and will be ready to collect up first thing tomorrow morning after 8 am. Mind you, I won't be strolling in at that sort of time, maybe around 9 or 10 am but it's more likely to be a mid afternoon visit.

Once I've got my mitts on the kit, I should be able to see which way to jump (cheap synchron motor from Toolsatan up the road or an internet order for the Banico powerhead). Once I know, you'll all know. :-)

Reply to
Johnny B Good

Well, I finally finished the repair this afternoon. My idea of cannibalising the rubber ball from the repair kit turned out to be a non- starter.

As it turned out, not as bad an outcome as I'd feared since I was able to source a replacement control head (a Corgi Replacement actuator)[1] quite cheaply from, of all places, my local Toolstatan (2 1/2 mile round trip, something like 60p's worth of unleaded) for a mere £31.93.

This was £1.02 cheaper than the cheapest ebay alternative that I liked the look of, a TMS MOTORISED ZONE VALVE ACTUATOR HEAD from an outfit called "Team Supplies". The detachable cable was a nice touch mind, so the extra £1.02 could have been justified for this 'convenience feature' alone - handy except I don't expect to be making very much use of it considering the anticipated decade or so 'servicing interval'.

The Free Click and collect from Argos meant an extra 6 day wait that ICBA putting up with, even though it puts the 'collection cost' on a par with that of calling into Toolsatan's trade/retail counter. Still, for anyone contemplating a similar repair, that might be a useful thing to know if they don't have a local Toolsatan within just a few miles of home.

As it happened, I ended spending around £1.20 on unleaded since I had to return the Corgi replacement actuator as defective on account operating the auto to manual lever (used to assist fill up / drain down and, in this case, removal/refitting to the valve body) caused the sector plate to jump teeth on the motor cog wheel.

Removing the cover revealed the single motor unit retaining screw was slack to the tune of about 1 1/2 turns and what appeared to be crud on the cog wheel and sector plate with a spot of green where the sector plate engaged the cog. Tightening up the slack fixing screw made no difference to the symptoms so I returned it for a replacement with a very quick check at the counter suggesting it was ok (much better than the 'faulty unit' at any rate).

When I got back to base and took a closer look at the replacement, I saw the same whitish crud, complete with green spot and could still elicit cog jumping (the motor fixing screw in this case was only an eighth of a turn slack).

It was only on closer inspection with my trusty jeweller?s loupe that I realised that the 'crud' was in fact grease and the reason for the cog jumping was simply the lack of support on the sector plate bearing from the valve spindle which would normally prevent the problem once the controller head was firmly attached to the valve body (Doh!!!).

So, a word to the wise when setting it into the 'manual' position prior to attaching it to the valve body, the tendency to cog jumping is normal in this circumstance. Once it's attached there shouldn't be any further trouble in this regard (unless you're being particularly brutal in operating the lever).

At the end of the exercise, the total parts cost came to a pretty reasonable £45.01 [2]. I reckon the time spent plus a fiver or so's worth of unleaded (and 4 quid for a 1 1/2 inch AF spanner) was simply the price of 'learning the mysteries of CH repair'.

Apropos of which (mysteries of CH plumbing), I think I've finally figured out the true purpose of the short length of 15mm pipe teed off the 28mm pump outlet which goes, via a valve, straight onto the 22mm return from the hot water tank heating coil circuit.

Until I read the instructions about the true purpose of the auto/manual lever on the control head relating to facilitating refill/drain down, I'd just assumed it was some arcane flow balancing measure so, playing safe, I've never risked completely shutting the valve off.

Now, I'm inclined to believe that it's only function is to also facilitate refill/drain down operations and should normally be completely closed off. I now have it fully shut off but would like some confirmation that this is how it's normally supposed to be set. I suppose I could try some more bing/google/duckduckgo-ing for this information but a hint or a link to a wiki would be very welcome right about now. :-)

[1] What staggers me in regard of all the different brands/models of 3 port mid position zone valves and their "detachable without needing a drain down" control heads is their seemingly universal compatibility with the Honeywell V4073A zone valve.

It wasn't too obvious when I first set off on this saga but it seems to me you'd be very hard pushed to find a 3 port mid position zone valve that *wasn't* Honeywell compatible. :-)

[2] If I buy a couple of 4 litre packs of Fernox MB1 to dose this 13 radiator system as I've done in the past (I'm estimating a 6 litre requirement since our Heating system plumbing is notably more extensive than the typical 100 litre 10 radiator semi detached house installation (Basement boiler, ground, first and second floor radiators), I could easily land up spending more on inhibitor than parts and that's excluding a flushing out of the system with a cleaning additive!

Quite frankly, I'm tempted to try the much cheaper additives being sold by Toolsatan who I notice, btw, *don't* sell any of the Fernox product, just the Corgi, Qual-Rad and CalChem product.

Is the Fernox product really worth its premium price or could I do just as well using the cheaper alternatives?

Reply to
Johnny B Good

My understanding of these valves is that there are two part - the 'wet' part which directs the flow to either or both output ports, and the dry part - the electrical actuator with motor and micro-switches which drives the shaft of the wet part in order to achieve the desired effect.

From what you have said, your problem was with a worn rubber ball - which is a component of the wet part, but you have only replaced the dry part and still have the worn ball in situ.

I may be missing something, but I'm struggling to see how that is going to solve your problem.

Reply to
Roger Mills

I did mention this key information, easily missed in a 48 line post I suppose. :-(

Honeywell 40003918-007 Conversion / Repair Kit

This is a new plate with actuator arm and rubber ball, supplied with a new O ring seal, and the the four "special screws" (two are hex headed with tapped drilled holes into which the captive retaining screws of the later control head screw into and the remaining two screws, also hex headed, have a locating pip which line up with holes in the control head base plate).

Fitting this Honeywell 40003918-007 Conversion / Repair Kit requires the use of the later control head designed to allow replacement without having to drain down the system beforehand as was the case with the older valve/control head unit I was trying to repair.

It's described as a Conversion / Repair kit because it can be used to upgrade an existing valve, retaining only the rather meaty brass valve body or else allow a simple replacement of the rubber ball part (including the actuator spindle and bearing assembly plate) on the later or converted valves.

In my case, I'd had the forlorn hope that I'd be able to cannibalise the rubber ball from that kit, thus reducing the parts cost to that of the kit plus a cheap replacement motor for the existing control head. As it happened, I was left without such a choice and had to buy a complete control head unit, an option that turned out to be far cheaper than the on-line pricing of the "Honeywell" control heads at 65 to 80 quid a pop.

In the end, the repair costs via the 'expensive' and 'messy' route of upgrading the valve using two seperate parts kits proved surprisingly more economic than the "Just shell out 120 quid for an original replacement and have done with it" approach. :-)

It just goes to show that embarking on such Central Heating refurbishment work during the lazy days of summer allows you ample time to properly search out an effective and economic solution (and learn some valuable lessons along the way).

BTW, I'm a little disappointed that no one has offered any advice over the question of "Fernox versus the rest". I think I should post that as a seperate thread.

Reply to
Johnny B Good

I guess I read your earlier post as "the ball didn't fit" whereas I think you're saying that it *does* fit - but only if you fit the whole kit rather than just the ball - and that that then requires the actuator to be replaced as well. Is that right?

[Interesting as your posts are, you do tend to use 100 words where 10 would do, and a quick scan sometimes results in the salient points being missed].
Reply to
Roger Mills

Spot on! :-)

I was, in my usual overly optimistic way, hoping I could acquire a replacement ball from the kit to replace the worn one without actually having to fit the whole kit, thus neatly avoiding the need for a replacement compatible control head (just a much cheaper motor to refurbish the old unit).

That's a fair point (despite the use of hyperbole - more like 100 words where 70 might do :-).

My problem isn't the wordage so much as line-age. I feel that a usenet response shouldn't have the obscene look of a twitter post, it deserves so much more than that. Trouble is, I find myself going a little too far most times. In some news groups this isn't a major problem but in others such as uk,d-i-y, it's all too easy to create a forest of verbiage swamping the salient 'wood-en' points wherein the reader may well feel they couldn't see the wood for the trees.

It's not as though I don't appreciate this problem with others' overly long posts it's more a case of pandering to a selfish desire 'to explain all' by 'just a *few* extra words on the matter is all it'll take - what harm can it do?' and before I've realised it, I've typed yet another massive missive.

I sometimes redact whole paragraphs when it dawns on me whilst proof reading... er admiring my handiwork what a monster of a missive I've created. I do sometimes keep it short and sweet. This is not one of those times but I'd like you to consider these last 3 paragraphs as a sort of apology if you may. :-) (a smiley - that should make it all right).

Reply to
Johnny B Good

I'm beginning to suspect you wear a bow-tie at work :-P

Reply to
Andy Burns

The pinion of the motor/gearbox meshes with a curved spring-loaded rack (if you can have curved rack) this directly opens the valve. A leaver that protrudes at one can push the rack and mechanically latch it open. No perishable parts to be seen unless they are in the wet part which is not dismantlable AFAICS

Reply to
Graham.

The curved spring loaded rack, I believe, is called a 'sector gear plate', basically just a wedge like slice of the bit of the larger cog actually required.

The old type valve requires a drain down to allow removal of the control head since it's part of the end plate which carries the rubber ball actuating crank and water tight bearing that it runs in. I found I could readily slip the ball itself off of the crank pin which gave me an optimistic hope that it was possible to buy replacement balls to fix this problem (this may have been true originally but the advent of the newer detachable, without draindown, control head effectively obsoleted the need).

I had hoped, however, that the ball used in the newer variant could be cannibalised from the repair/upgrade valve plate kit but Honeywell had made damn sure any such cheap repair wasn't going to be possible by changing the crankpin diameter to a slightly smaller one and use a riveted end washer to prevent ball removal anyway.

When I saw this, I was then forced to buy the later type of control head to complete the valve assembly upgrade. This turned out a lot cheaper than I'd initially feared would be the case, and, from a surprisingly local source, Toolstation of all places!

BTW, I did learn something useful from this exercise, it would seem to be impossible to buy an incompatible control head for the later version of the Honeywell 3 port mid position valve. No matter what make or branding the control head may be, as long as it's for a three port mid position valve, it'll fit and operate just as well as any of the 65 to 80 quid Honeywell control heads (the Toolstation one was a mere £31.93 btw).

The parts total came to a mere £45.01 after all of my researching for the 'Cheapest possible solution' (13 quid for the repair/upgrade kit and

32 quid for a new control head unit) which was a damn sight cheaper than buying a complete Honeywell valve assembly for around the 115 to 120 quid mark.

The job's done now and all I'm waiting on is getting up the gumption to re-dose the system with another 4 litres of MB-1.

Reply to
Johnny B Good

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