Gas lamps running from bottled gas

[Richard]

Does anyone have knowledge of gas lighting?

I'm thinking of the wall mounted units with gas mantle often found in remote Youth Hostels. Friend has an interest in one such hostel in Wales. What lighting it has is provided by gas lamps that share the same bottled gas supply (orange cylinders - propane?) as the simple grill-plus-two-burner stoves. The stoves all seem to work fine but the lamps seem excessively smokey. He has replaced the mantles and pricked the jets to no avail.

Suggestions welcomed.

TIA

Richard

[Mary Fisher]

They shouldn't be smoky, it's not a function of the fuel - we use propane for the gas lamps in our caravan in Wales. They work just as well on butane.

I wonder if there's an adjustment somewhere ... I'll ask Spouse.

Mary

[mrcheerful]

If it is smoky then there is too much gas or not enough air.

mrcheerful

[Andrew Gabriel]

and possibly carbon monoxide being produced.

My suspicion would be they have wrong jets for the gas being used, assuming you've checked airways are not blocked, etc.

[Richard]

Well, the amount of gas, and hence brightness of mantle 'glow', is adjusted by a gas tap. Wide open still produces smoke, so presumably an air problem. Having said that, I thought that gas lamps didn't burn with a flame as such, i.e. you turn the gas on and light it but after a brief period while the mantle heats the flame almost dissapears to be replaced by the beautiful lime light incandescent glow of the mantle. Is that right? If it is then why would they smoke?

Also the mantle itself is like a crochet net ball that you coax over the burner. At first use the mantle burns briefly and then becomes useable but very fragile???

The mantles for Andy's lamps seem to come pre-burnt which struck me as odd.

Thanks

Richard

[Richard]

Can't comment on the airways. I'm really trying to collect info for Andy. The hostel is near Tregarron, so I'm not popping up to check! As for the CO poisoning; the only time I visited the hostel we found that that _all_ the plaster on the chimney breast in one of the two bedrooms was completly unattached to the chimney and that most of the mortar in the stack itself had turned to dust, i.e. the chimney was pretty much unsealed as it passed through the bedroom. BTW the fire is the only source of heat in the hostel! Youth hostelling anyone? It's classed as 'simple grade' (IIRC) but I prefer to call all these hostels 'primitive or sub-standard grade' ;-)

What I'm hoping to see in this thread is someone saying 'Joe Bloggs and Sons at somewhere' make and service gas lamps for use on bottled gas in caravans'.

Richard

[Chris J Dixon]

When I used to have caravan gas lamps, the air mix was adjusted by means of a knurled ring in a similar way to the sleeve on a Bunsen burner.

Chris

[Richard]

Thanks Chris,

Did you have to adjust both air and gas volume?

Ta Richard

[Mary Fisher]

Spouse says:

Assuming that the mantle is suspended from the burner on a ceramic ring, above that assembly there is a section wider than the gas supply pipe which has a series of holes round it and a gas jet within. There is usually a screw thread round this wider portion with a knurled ring. Screwing the ring up or down increases or decreases the amount of air drawn in to mix with the gas. I would suggest that increasing the amount of air will cure the smoke.

If for any reason the mantle is above the jet the air holes will be below it., with a similar adjustment. As another poster said, it does the sme job although not quite in the same was as the sleeve on a Bunsen burner.

We shall be going fairly near to Tregaran somewhere round Christmas, if there is no solution before then give us a mail.

Mary

[Chris J Dixon]

From memory, the gas was usually turned on until maximum brightness was achieved, I can't remember if this was always full on, or not. The air mix was then set to suit, and only needed adjusting if vibration had moved the rings in transit.

There are probably folk in the caravanning group who know more about this.

Chris

[N. Thornton]

Smoke means carbon monoxide, and gas lights normally vent straight into the room. Hope your friend enjoys manslaughter charges. To continue using them as they are is too stupid for words.

Either the gas/air mix can be adjusted, or maybe the lamp is being used on the wrong type of gas.

Hope someone finds this idiot and shuts them down.

NT

[Mary Fisher]

Not necessarily. Smoke isn't CO, they can be associted but aren't always.

That's because they're safe.

Oh come on!

The chap's asking for advice on how to make them work proerly, he's being responsible.

Propane is fine.

I don't. I hope that the problem is resolved, that the gas lamps are made to work efficiently and that they're enjoyed.

Mary

[sylva]

I think he's right, when smoke is a sol and the result of incomplete combustion of a hydrocarbon fuel there will always be associated carbon monoxide. OTOH you can have a non smoky fire and still have carbon monoxide.

AJH

[The Natural Philosopher]

It doesn't. Smoke means unburnt carbon.

Lack of soot and smoke is no guranatee of lack of CO.

[N. Thornton]

But it is likely in this case. Smoke means incomplete combustion means the likelihood of CO.

no, because correctly working ones are passably safe. Smoking gas lights are not safe.

Yes, but the one running the hostel is being something else altogether, assuming they are indeed separate people.

depends what the things designed for.

That would be nice, but I would be concerned about a hostel owner so completely careless as to keep exposing the guests to CO and do nothing about it. The lights should have been taken out of service immediately, the install should have been safety tested, and in this state that seems unlikely.

NT

[Mary Fisher]

As a Life Member of YHA I suggest that you report this to the Association.

Until you see it you don't know.

Yes, but not that CO is being produced.

No, they are safe.

Tht's not necessarily true.

I get the feeling that you're making assumptions which reflect your own character than anything else.

Gas lighting. Haven't you been reading?>

You don't KNOW that guests ARE being exposed to CO.

If you're so concerned why don't you go down and examine the intallation? I've offered to help with the initial query and I'm not concerned about the safety.

Mary

[Richard]

Thanks Mary,

Info passed on. And thanks for 'visit' offer.

Rgds Richard

[N. Thornton]

We do know that the risk of CO being produced is unacceptable. It is not necessary to see or test to work that one out.

no, that its _likely_ to be. Honestly!

your evidence that they can not be producing CO is where?

This is not worth continuing.

NT