FW: Stop The Scrap Metal Thieves

Oi pillock - are you going to spam all the USENET groups individually in sequence? You just did uk.railway

So what's the alternative? I recently took some very old and dead batteries to a scrap dealer and got a reasonable amount of money for them. If I couldn't have done that what *could* I have done with them?

You would still be able to sell the scrap but with this scheme it would be illegal to be paid IN CASH, cheques okay.

Tim

Sent to both uk.railway and uk.d-i-y as these (otherwise unrelated) groups have a particular interest in the stopping these scumbags.

Apologies if you're traumatised by having read the same headline twice, when you recover do feel free to forward this on.

I see you cannot be bothered to post your own name or email address - that should be an 'ignore' violation straight away.

Right, where do we start. People are pinching scrap metal. They get cash from the scrap dealer. So in future, they will get a cheque. Right. How is that going to stop them doing it? They can be easily traced now, but Police cannot be bothered to follow up these thefts, and check scrapyards. It would take a Court Order to find out who owned the bank account. You really think the Police would get court orders for every transaction? You can be sure the scrap dealer has 'forgotten' who sold him the stolen scrap.So each transaction on that day/week would need to be checked. You really think the Police will do that?

So you want a new Law to stop cash payments. How is that going to be enforced? A crooked scrap dealer , of which there must be some, will still get his tonne of cast iron drain covers, and will continue to pay cash. Just like Tradesmen always declare every cash payment. It is un-enforcable.

Bob down the road changes his cast iron guttering, and has a few batteries to weigh in. He will have to pay a cheque (werent cheques going to be stopped for the general public?) into his bank now. Why do you want to inconvenience the vast majority of users, for the very few criminals?

Now, how about existing laws? Scrap Metal Dealers Act 1964 is the relevant one. Anyone dealing in, or selling scrap metal must have a Licence from the local council. That includes Pikey Joe in his flat bed transit with 10 old washing machines on his van. Now, do you think he has a relevant licence? No, of course he hasnt. So, he can be stopped, and ultimately his van can be seized, because he doesnt have a Licence. You think the Police have the time/incentive to stop him? Of course they dont/wont. They cannot be bothered. If they won't even come out to fingerprint a burgled house, do you really think they are bothered about a few road sgns going missing. They are not bothered.

So, new Law? Absolutely no point, as existing laws cope with these nefarious activities, but , like many other Laws, they are not being enforced. Have you got anything to do with the Labour party? They seemed to like bringing in pointless laws.

Alan.

Please explain how this will stop metal thieves? You dont think they have bank accounts?

They were, but they aren't now.

In message , Mitch writes

Cheques? Quaint outmoded bits of paper

What next cars, meat ( might be poached), CDs (might be pirated)

Even the banks we suffer from now will now let the scrappie credit your bank with the value of the scrap. At the worst, he can (just about) write you a cheque.

As long as the transaction is traceable.

supposed to work:

Crossposting would have meant everyone would see the whole discussion...

And I'm a Labour party supporter.

In theory they are now, I believe that the scarppy is supposed to record the name/address and what was bought in for every transaction.

Of course when that folded scrap lead from a church roof is in the heap with all the other scrap lead how can it be proved which transaction was which lump of lead and thus which "John Smith of 34 Acacia Ave" bought it in?

As has been pointed out, that's what they're *supposed* to do. They're also supposed to check that it actually *is* John Smith From 34, Acacia Avenue, which is what the non-cash payment should reliably prove, as any non-cash method almost has to be traceable to a particular legal entity.

Require all batches of metal to include a unique blend of tracing elements? Which, to some extent, they do now, but once it's been melted down, you've got no chance.

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It would also be a b****y nuisance for the small machine shop wanting to get rid of their legitimate scrap. Besides, nobody really trusts their scrap dealer so, instead of going in and getting paid cash, they would have to give out their bank details to someone they already assume is dodgy. Alternatively, perhaps they could hand over their credit card for a refund payment and possibly cloning. If anything, it would increase the scope for crime.

Colin Bignell

IME that is exactly what they all do, or at least did five years of so ago when I last was in a business that produced metal scrap. They also recorded the registration number of any vehicle used to bring the scrap in.

I was always asked for proof of identity when the chap behind the counter did not recognise me.

Fred Bloggs Enterprises, Cayman Islands, for example.

Colin Bignell

...

and the police say the council should be enforcing the licenses as they issue them, and the council aren't allowed to charge license fees that cover the costs of enforcing the licensing, just the costs of issuing them, and licensing officers aren't prepared to turn up at the scrappies without arrest powers...

JGH

It could be stopped quite easily by making the police do their job and ensuring the courts backed them up by giving custodial sentences for theft. You can bring all the laws out that you can think off to compel scrap merchants to abide by these laws but there will always be someone who will buy stolen scrap. It`s the stealing that has to be stopped. We caught a guy stealing our scrap iron out of our yard the other week.Detained him and called 999,took forty five minutes for the police to start appearing. They decided that as the value of the scrap was "only" =A3200 it was pointless to arrest the guy as "it would get chucked out".So he got off with a warning. I didn`t see it as a warning,I saw it as a message to the guy to tell the world that in this bit of the country the police won`t bother you if you only steal =A3200`s worth.

And eggs (they can be poached too)

How will this help? AIUI the stolen cable tends to leave the country in