FW: Stop The Scrap Metal Thieves

You may wish to support this very worthy initiative to try and remove the thieves incentive of getting paid cash for stolen metal such as metal gates, drain covers, copper pipe, cables, gas pipes and war memorials etc.
If you support this please also forward this to others.
Thanks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FW:
Below is a link to an e-petition aimed at asking Parliament to review the introduction of legislation aimed at making cash transactions at Scrap Metal Dealers illegal - this type of legislation will help considerably in the battle against cable and metal theft as it will ensure both a paper and electronic trail on all transactions and will potentially significantly reduce the means by which cable thieves can cash in on their ill gotten gains.
Could I ask that you all consider signing the petition and share with and encourage others to do so? The petition requires a minimum of 10,000 signatures before it will be considered by parliament.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406
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wrote:

Oi pillock - are you going to spam all the USENET groups individually in sequence? You just did uk.railway
--
Tim Watts

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Tim
Sent to both uk.railway and uk.d-i-y as these (otherwise unrelated) groups have a particular interest in the stopping these scumbags.
Apologies if you're traumatised by having read the same headline twice, when you recover do feel free to forward this on.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406
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wrote:

It's not that I'm traumatised - it's bad form: see here for how it is supposed to work:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossposting
You've multi-posted which now means there will be two distinct threads.
Crossposting would have meant everyone would see the whole discussion...
--
Tim Watts

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Mitch <x> wrote:

So what's the alternative? I recently took some very old and dead batteries to a scrap dealer and got a reasonable amount of money for them. If I couldn't have done that what *could* I have done with them?

--
Chris Green

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You would still be able to sell the scrap but with this scheme it would be illegal to be paid IN CASH, cheques okay.
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Mitch <x> wrote:

Please explain how this will stop metal thieves? You dont think they have bank accounts?
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On Aug 17, 6:38pm, a...@darkroom.+.com (A.Lee) wrote:

..
They can be traced that is the point it aint rocket sceince. IS teh same idea as cash convertors and similar places, tke yuor scrap or gold or TV to a shop and get 'cash' that;s basic fencing isn't it. Some scap dealers are buying metal on teh cheap with no questions asked if peole did thast with cars/TV and any other stuff thefts would increase.

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Cheques? Quaint outmoded bits of paper
What next cars, meat ( might be poached), CDs (might be pirated)
--
geoff

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On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 19:00:07 +0100, geoff wrote:

And eggs (they can be poached too)
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On 17/08/2011 19:00, geoff wrote:

Uncrossed postal orders and stamps?
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snipped-for-privacy@isbd.co.uk wrote:

Even the banks we suffer from now will now let the scrappie credit your bank with the value of the scrap. At the worst, he can (just about) write you a cheque.
As long as the transaction is traceable.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

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On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 19:02:16 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

In theory they are now, I believe that the scarppy is supposed to record the name/address and what was bought in for every transaction.
Of course when that folded scrap lead from a church roof is in the heap with all the other scrap lead how can it be proved which transaction was which lump of lead and thus which "John Smith of 34 Acacia Ave" bought it in?
--
Cheers
Dave.




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Dave Liquorice wrote:

As has been pointed out, that's what they're *supposed* to do. They're also supposed to check that it actually *is* John Smith From 34, Acacia Avenue, which is what the non-cash payment should reliably prove, as any non-cash method almost has to be traceable to a particular legal entity.

Require all batches of metal to include a unique blend of tracing elements? Which, to some extent, they do now, but once it's been melted down, you've got no chance.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

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On 17/08/2011 20:14, John Williamson wrote:

IME that is exactly what they all do, or at least did five years of so ago when I last was in a business that produced metal scrap. They also recorded the registration number of any vehicle used to bring the scrap in.

I was always asked for proof of identity when the chap behind the counter did not recognise me.

Fred Bloggs Enterprises, Cayman Islands, for example.
Colin Bignell
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It could be stopped quite easily by making the police do their job and ensuring the courts backed them up by giving custodial sentences for theft. You can bring all the laws out that you can think off to compel scrap merchants to abide by these laws but there will always be someone who will buy stolen scrap. It`s the stealing that has to be stopped. We caught a guy stealing our scrap iron out of our yard the other week.Detained him and called 999,took forty five minutes for the police to start appearing. They decided that as the value of the scrap was "only" 200 it was pointless to arrest the guy as "it would get chucked out".So he got off with a warning. I didn`t see it as a warning,I saw it as a message to the guy to tell the world that in this bit of the country the police won`t bother you if you only steal 200`s worth.
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About 10 years ago a couple of middle aged men climbed throuygh a hole in a wire fence and started taking old relays that had been left out on the goods yard at stratford leyton area and selling them for scrap. They got caught by British rail and ended up in court, but the court went against BR mainly as BR claimed these relays were worth 80 each and they'd lost 1000s, but the judge asked why they don;t employ some to pick them up if they are worth so much or why they don;t fix the fence as children were seen climbing through and playing on the ralway tracks.

Thatv sounds quick to me.

So where are you leaving this scrap iron for me to take (provided I don't take more than 200 worth of course) ;-)
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Mitch <x> wrote:

I see you cannot be bothered to post your own name or email address - that should be an 'ignore' violation straight away.
Right, where do we start. People are pinching scrap metal. They get cash from the scrap dealer. So in future, they will get a cheque. Right. How is that going to stop them doing it? They can be easily traced now, but Police cannot be bothered to follow up these thefts, and check scrapyards. It would take a Court Order to find out who owned the bank account. You really think the Police would get court orders for every transaction? You can be sure the scrap dealer has 'forgotten' who sold him the stolen scrap.So each transaction on that day/week would need to be checked. You really think the Police will do that?
So you want a new Law to stop cash payments. How is that going to be enforced? A crooked scrap dealer , of which there must be some, will still get his tonne of cast iron drain covers, and will continue to pay cash. Just like Tradesmen always declare every cash payment. It is un-enforcable.
Bob down the road changes his cast iron guttering, and has a few batteries to weigh in. He will have to pay a cheque (werent cheques going to be stopped for the general public?) into his bank now. Why do you want to inconvenience the vast majority of users, for the very few criminals?
Now, how about existing laws? Scrap Metal Dealers Act 1964 is the relevant one. Anyone dealing in, or selling scrap metal must have a Licence from the local council. That includes Pikey Joe in his flat bed transit with 10 old washing machines on his van. Now, do you think he has a relevant licence? No, of course he hasnt. So, he can be stopped, and ultimately his van can be seized, because he doesnt have a Licence. You think the Police have the time/incentive to stop him? Of course they dont/wont. They cannot be bothered. If they won't even come out to fingerprint a burgled house, do you really think they are bothered about a few road sgns going missing. They are not bothered.
So, new Law? Absolutely no point, as existing laws cope with these nefarious activities, but , like many other Laws, they are not being enforced. Have you got anything to do with the Labour party? They seemed to like bringing in pointless laws.
Alan.
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alan@darkroom.+.com (A.Lee) wrote:

They were, but they aren't now.
--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
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+1
And I'm a Labour party supporter.
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