Frustrations arising from adding a second door bell

[tabbypurr]

I can. But one could try it.

there is a moulded stripe on one side.

NT

[Terry Casey]

Would you care to elucidate?

[tabbypurr]

The bells are only getting power half the time. You could try it, but I'm not really sure why one would choose that approach. Also asymmetric loading canes transformers.

NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not so if you do mean a bell. A DC one needs contacts operated by the movement of the solenoid (usually called a trembler) An AC one just follows the waveform. A DC type will usually work OK on AC, but not the other way round.

[The Natural Philosopher]

half power

[dr.s.lartius]

ly one on the circuit.

You have been applying 16 or 24 V AC to a system including two similar bell s which each worked on 8 V AC. Therefore, after any test in which you do n ot get ringing on both bells, you should test the bells individually on 8 V AC to ensure that each is still capable of working using the intended fina l cables.

If you have access at the bell end to the cable, you might consider pushing a thin needle into each wire (I'm supposing they are stranded) to make con tact for electrical measurement.

You could try a Web search for solar powered door bell button - using s uch should mean that batteries don't need regular replacement - existing bu tton for Home, new one for Office.

Your diagrams show no Earth connection. You should be sure that any toucha ble metal in the transformer is either well earthed or double-insulated and that one side of the transformer output is also well earthed.

[Andy Burns]

under half with diode drop.

[Max Demian]

Surely the problem with wiring trembler bells in series is that the interrupter contact of each would try to interrupt the current to the other bell, hence my suggestion the the contacts on one (designated the slave) be connected together so the master bell would control both. (I've no idea whether this would work.) Obviously the power source would have to have to provide sufficient voltage and current.

[tabbypurr]

it works if the bells aren't too far dissimilar. But if one hammers at 50Hz and the other 10Hz it may not work.

Yuo could always try Colin Furze's bell.

NT

[Dave W]

I notice you haven't replied to any posts. I can't understnd your relay circuit - where does the second bell get its power from?

I would try adding two diode rectifiers to the transformer, charging two electrolytic capacitors. A capacitor would also be needed across at least one bell to make it independent of the other one's interruptions. Each diode would peak rectify the 8VAC to give about

20V across the two bells in series. 1000uF might do for the capacitors.

Mains __|__|__ | | diode ______ | |--o-|>|-o---o---| 2nd | | | | |+ |+ | Bell | | | | cap = = |______| | 8VAC | | | | | | | | | o------o | |--|-----o | | | | | | |________| | |+ | ______ | cap = o-----------------| Door | | | | Bell | o-|

[tabbypurr]

ell wire) was passed through the cavity / under floors from the under-the-s tairs transformer adjacent to the breaker panel, to the front door bell pus h via an over the door bell

providing a simple door bell setup.

ck to the under-the-stairs panel. From past experience I knew i wouldn't be able to hear the existing bell when working.

nly one on the circuit. I then wired the bells in series. No sound. I hadn' t really expected them to as the 8 Volt transformer wouldn't have the oomph to drive 2 bells in series.

24 and tried again. Still no go.

ppears to be an adequate voltage across the terminals (testing from where t he wires terminate near the transformer).

ll mechanisms work - making and breaking the circuit and that being out of sync in such a way as to prevent either bell from working - so I modified t he circuit and added a 12VAC relay.

s with it doesn't. Frustrating!

or in parallel to an inductive load (such as the bell or the relay) might b e of some use in such situations. But what type of capacitor and what value ? Anyone?

hat appears to be adequate voltage and the bell and relay in series don't w ork?

st bell and switch (bell push) are and no option of adding another.

mer. This in effect means I CAN'T wire the bells in parallel.

It's a gamble to assume the 2 bells will run happily on the same current. T hey may do.

If bell is reluctant to start, rectifier & nice big capacitor gives it a ki ck to get it going. Your circuit will do that for the 1st bell. I'm not cle ar why one bell has a cap across it, one doesn't.

NT

[Adrian Caspersz]

Replace the office bell with the relay coil, the NO contacts wired to charge a small battery via a simple DC charger circuit. Wire the NC contacts to sound the DC bell from the battery.

[Adrian Caspersz]

Oh, ignore that. Muddles here ....

[PaulS]

ll wire) was passed through the cavity / under floors from the under-the-st airs transformer adjacent to the breaker panel, to the front door bell push via an over the door bell

erdome-bell-brass/14337) providing a simple door bell setup.

k to the under-the-stairs panel. From past experience I knew i wouldn't be able to hear the existing bell when working.

ly one on the circuit. I then wired the bells in series. No sound. I hadn't really expected them to as the 8 Volt transformer wouldn't have the oomph to drive 2 bells in series.

24 and tried again. Still no go.

pears to be an adequate voltage across the terminals (testing from where th e wires terminate near the transformer).

l mechanisms work - making and breaking the circuit and that being out of s ync in such a way as to prevent either bell from working - so I modified th e circuit and added a 12VAC relay.

with it doesn't. Frustrating!

r in parallel to an inductive load (such as the bell or the relay) might be of some use in such situations. But what type of capacitor and what value? Anyone?

at appears to be adequate voltage and the bell and relay in series don't wo rk?

t bell and switch (bell push) are and no option of adding another.

er. This in effect means I CAN'T wire the bells in parallel.

Thanks everyone for responding. I'll be trying some of the potential soluti ons as soon as I can. I'm also going to try and respond individually to ea ch message to clarify my set-up. I don't seem to have been as clear as I in tended to be. :-)

[PaulS]

Hi Harry,

Parallel is not an option in this case. The switch / bell push is in series with the original bell on a single 2 core bell wire and I don't have the option to run a new wire to the switch.

[Andy Burns]

You might use a wired to wireless extender, if you can't run a new wire

[PaulS]

The (mechanical) bells are running on AC. I haven't tried them with DC yet. The relay is an AC relay. Parallel is not an option in this case. The swit ch / bell push is in series with the original bell on a single 2 core bell wire and I don't have the option to run a new wire to the switch.

[PaulS]

bell wire) was passed through the cavity / under floors from the under-the- stairs transformer adjacent to the breaker panel, to the front door bell pu sh via an over the door bell

providing a simple door bell setup.

ack to the under-the-stairs panel. From past experience I knew i wouldn't b e able to hear the existing bell when working.

only one on the circuit. I then wired the bells in series. No sound. I hadn 't really expected them to as the 8 Volt transformer wouldn't have the oomp h to drive 2 bells in series.

Thanks Max,

I'll give this a go.

[PaulS]

Hi Owain,

I'm using the original 8 vac transformer to drive the second bell - at least I would if I'd got as far a getting the first bell and relay in series to work.

Thanks for the reference - I'll try shorting the trembler circuit. On the subject of the snubber - any recommendations re a value here?

[PaulS]

Thanks for the input. I'm afraid wireless isn't an option for me though