Follow-up: "A better measurement and marking system"

[michael adams]

In the unlikely event that there is anyone still reading this who is still unaware of what a clueless numpty you actually are I will produce one, and one link only in support of what I say

You're clearly not setting it up right then.

Or lets imagine for the sake of argument you have. So you're feeding a panel through the saw, and the shroud or guard which houses the top extractor hose is almost touching the panel. And there's strong vaccum pressure inside this shroud. To say nothing of the vaccuum pressure from underneath from the cabinet extractor.

Nevertheless some sawdust somehow escapes, then drifts across and lands on top of the sheet, which is held tight against the fence and then falls off the top of the sheet and down in against the fence. But surely any sawdust can only fall off once the panel is through the saw and is clear of the shroud and the fence ? I'm sure I remember you say this was a panel saw with a sliding bed.

Who says I don't ?

My posts can be judged on their own merits, not on what I claim to have done or what gear I claim to own.

There you go again, trying to rewrite history. What you actually said was that you yourself bought 8mm bits because you were snapping 1/4 in bits. But if you already had plenty of 1/2 bits why wouldn't you use those instead ?

Really ? Could you give some examples ?

"Going to buy" ? Elu 1/2 routers went out of production and were rebadged as DeWalt 10, 15 or more years ago.

No after you were challenged, it turns out that you supposedly already had two. Including an Elu 1/2 router which went out of production and were rebadged as DeWalt 10, 15 or more years ago.

Who ever said you only had one ? I most certainly didn't. And what possible difference can that make to anything, anyway ?

What information about you could be of possible interest to anyone ? Do you honestly think anything anyone could dig up about you could surpass that nonsense you came out with about a "build-up of sawdust on the fence ?

You're the one who just mentioned owning a spindle moulder chum, not me. I never asked you to do so did I ? Maybe you should try and answer your own questions for a change.

I haven't forgotten it, as I never said it.

What I actually said was

"Drawing lines is one thing. Machining or cutting timber, or timber based products, to the same degree of precision, is another."

In other words more difficult.

You see you've been caught out in a lie again.

Whereas you in effect are claiming that accurately cutting wood takes no more practice and skill than does drawing lines on paper

Although when this logical consequence of what you'd actually said was pointed out to you, as per usual, you started jumping up and down, and spewing insults.

No you haven't. One other poster extolled the virtues of a Festool track saw, which IMO shows very little extra benefit for the extra cost of 400 as compared with a home made job made out of birch ply. And as I pointed out the much vaunted precision available on the depth of the cut, would only be of real benefit for people wanting to saw panels on top of their dining room table.

Because I never said it.

And you're lying in claiming that I did.

It really is as simple as that.

michael adams

...

[fred]

Suffering jayzuz. You've dug up a picture of an antique Wadkin machine and you think that helps your argument. Things have moved on from those days so nny.

Sad really sad.

You know f**k all about setting up an extraction system. Or of cutting mate rial on a sliding table saw where the cross cut fence is more used than the rip fence so the dust is not sliding across the surface of the board and h itting the rip fence because the rip fence is not in use. You really are hi larious. You've looked at a few pictures on the internet and think that mak es you an expert. Priceless. You poor idiot. Never seen a sliding table saw being used and now your an expert. What merits have accrued from your posts. You consistently talk s**te. You contribute nothing but negatory remarks. You refuse to believe others could possibly own some decent equipment just because you can't afford it.

I see you've finally Googled Elu equipment. I knew you had never heard of i t. It was the cream of the crop in its day and the fact that I am still usi ng it after so many years shows this. You could never have afforded it or j udging by your diatribe against the Festool track saw never have appreciate d the quality of it.

Oh dear. that jealous streak again. Oh someone can afford a Festool track s aw. That cant be as good as my mickey mouse home made jobbie and I cant aff ord it. Again you've obviously never used a Festool track saw so how the f*

*k would you know how good it was. Oh I forgot. You've seen a picture. Made you an instant expert again. If at this stage you haven't undertood how ea sy it is to cut wood accurately then thats an indication of a lack of intel ligence. I could show a child how to cut to 0.5mm on a saw. No problem. Eve n on that antique Wadkin.

I really enjoy these peices of light entertainment of yours. Can't wait for your next effort to demonstrate you appalling ignorance.

I sincerely hope you actually are compus mentis (Pleas Google this before y ou drop yourself in it again) I'd hate to think you really are dim witted a nd that I've been poking fun at a retard all along. I'm beginning to fear I really am dealing with such. I mean, anyone who continues to prove their o wn ignorance surely must be at least a lttle slow.

[michael adams]

Easy. Buy a portable dust extractor, you know the ones that look like souped-up vaccuum cleaners on wheels. And run the hose along a boom

Here's the Festool version which comes in at $365.00. Which is about $340 more than it would cost to knock up the same thing out of a few lengths of timber. Or if you really want to push the boat out around $320 more for a similar thing knocked up out of steel conduit. White paint included.

Only from selling to people like you, who've apprently never ever heard of portable dust extractors.

I'd probably end up on "Watchdog" and be accused of taking advantage of mentally vulnerable people.

michael adams

...

[michael adams]

Not a picture, a brochure which is still being issued by a dealer today. So much are these machines still in demand, secondhand.

Says somebody who boasts of using 20 year old routers.

You're still using it "after so many years" and yet you've never ever ever heard the term "dimension saw" ?

Those two statements don't really add up you see. Your familiarity with routers apparently goes back 20 years, and yet you're totally unfamilar with the term "dimension saw", which were still regarded as the last word in precison at the time. As they still are by many people who aren't necessarily infatuated with the latest gizmos - digital readouts etc as you clearly are.

Based solely on your perusal of the impressive advertisements and promotional material you see on the web, it goes without saying.

Yes, I'm sure you do.

Trust me I really do believe everything you say.

How could I not ?

michael adams

...

[fred]

Not a picture ? Then what did you show ? A picture FROM a brochure.

Wadking were fine machines in their day and are still appreciated today escond hand because they are a CHEAP entry into good woodworking machinery.

A bicycle was once known as a velocipede but that name didn't catch on. Bicycle was adopted as being a clearer indication of the machine. The same goes with 'Dimension' saw. Perhaps if you stopped reading arcane (Google it ) sales literature you would know this.

Your latest diatribe (Google it) was a bit short. Pity.Not so much to laugh at.

[fred]

Ohh too easy . We have THREE wheeled dust extractors. Two have the requisite hose for attachment to tools and that is how they are used.

You're taking the piss suggesting attaching one to a fence. Ohh that would be handy. Bloody thing getting in the way every time the fence or fence stop had to be moved.

And then would we need to attache one to the rip fence and each of the cross cut fence stops or keep swopping the bloody thing about.

Like a lot of shops we merely keep a dust blower suspended from the ceiling . A quick blast from that shifts any dust and the fine dust extractor situated above the saw keeps the air nice and clean.

That post of yours had a bit more humour in it. Just a small chuckle. Nothing compared to the classic 'Royal we' post. Makes me laugh all over again just thinking about it.

You're back on form tripping yourself up and demonstrating your complete ignorance of woodworking shops.

Hasta la vista (Google it ) Must try harder

[fred]

To put a stop to your arrant (goggle it) nonsense about me merely claiming to own certain equipment , (jealousy manifest) for you delight I have uploa ded a few images here

For verisimilitude (google it) I have included an image of the front of tod ay's Observer colour magasine.

As you will discover these images individually contain a variety of pieces of equipment which would be well nigh impossible to assemble unless in my p ersonal possession.

Namely an Elu 1/2" router mounted on a Woodrat.

An Elu 1/4" router with the carton for a Micro Fence

Google that. But be warned you probably can't afford it.

The spindle moulder on a Felder CF machine with alongside it a high speed r outer spindle for same and a few collets for same also

An inage of a Felder AF 22 dust extractor.

The small Bosch 1/4" router with plunge base sitting on aforementioned Micr ofence box.

And just to further delight you, and knowing how much you appreciate Festoo l equipment, an image of a Festool Domino. No doubt you have your own home made version of a loose tenon machine which is vastly superior to the Festo ol one and didn't cost you

00

These images have been reduced for efficiency in transmission but I'd be ha ppy to provide you with the raw files to examine for any doctoring. If you know the slightest thing about altering digital images you will realise any doctoring of these images, containing as they do an image of the Observer magasine cover, would be very difficult to do and I certainly wouldn't be a rsed to do so to impress the likes of you.

You will need software to be able to read raw files from this camera

and be warned these files are in excess of 20mb each.

These images are of my personal workshop. If you wish tomorrow I will get y ou images of the Altendorf panel saw, the three mobile dust extractors, the Freud 1/2" router and some more Festool equipment.

[Adam Aglionby]

Know a joiner, strike that, cabinet maker who had his Festool mitre saw as wallpaper on his phone..

Next its going to be how much can you spend on a `decent` chisel...

Spirit of Andy Hall will be here forever ;-)

[michael adams]

So how come you've never thought of attaching the hose of one of them to a boom ? As in the picture which I thoughtfully provided for you ?

But I never suggested attaching anything to a fence did I ? That was you. And the only reason you did so, was because none of the pictures of dust collectors you found on the web showed hoses on booms. You assumed therefore that they'd have to be attached to the fence in some way which was clearly impossible. So that as far as you could see, judging be everything you'd googled, there was no way of preventing this "buildup of sawdust on the fence".

You know, this sawdust which had somehow escaped from under the shroud extractor, travelled 1000mm all the way across the panel and somehow got between the panel and the fence.

If you look at the picture you can see that the hose doesn't need to be attached to anything. It simply dangles from the boom, over the fence or wherever its needed.

Ah right. Funny how you've never mentioned that one before. So anyway every now and again you give everything a good blast with the dust extractor, blowing a nice refreshing blast of cool, dust laden air into everybody's faces, which must be nice I suppose. While at the same time unfortunately missing -

"A slight build up of sawdust against a fence that's gone un-noticed."

All that money spent on all that gear, three portable dust extractors but no boom unfortunately, that ceiling mounted blower, the fine dust extractor mounted above the saw and you're still getting those "slight build ups of sawdust against the fence."

Are you really sure you're doing this right ?

michael adams

...

[michael adams]

Sorry chum. All that shows is a load of gear, much of it quite possibly bought secondhand and already covered in dust, piled up in somebody's garage. Along with the fact that either they or you, are readers of the Observer. Or found a copy of yesterday's edition blowing about somewhere.

For a start I can't help noticing that both of the routers still have their their cutters mounted. In the case of the

96 along with a guide bush, despite the fact that the cord has been neatly tied together. Whenever I see this in a secondhand router on offer this immediately sets alarm bells ringing. Because it eithers means a) sloppy working practices by someone who obviously did't look after their tools or b) work ceased all of a sudden which could mean that the tool stopped working or that the owner died. Which in the latter case means taking your chances as it will be certainly be a case of "Sorry mate it was my dad's I don't know anything about them myself". While in either case, it might also mean that the cutter is now seized in place in the collet. And that grazed knuckles time is here again. A definite no-no IOW.

With the collapse in the housing market in Ireland, I'd imagine there are plenty of joinery businesses going bust. And plenty of bargains going begging either bought direct or through liquidation auctions. Which would of course account for the fact that you seem to have a number of tools which all seem capable of performing exactly the same job.

However with woodwork as with most things there's a bit more to it than just being able to read the names on the labels, or snapping up what you take to be bargains.

It's just a pity that no dimension saws turned up at any of these auctions, either. Then at least you might have known what they were when I happened to mention them, and not ended up making quite such a fool of yourself, as you did.

And with all this dust collection equipment lying around, there's no real excuse for anyone to allow their garage to get into such a sorry state as that, now is there ? The place is a positive fire hazard, more especially if you ever connect up a power supply and actually plug things in.

Whereas it seems you can't even afford one of these

or one of these

or really pushing the boat out one of these

Strangely enough, the one tool you previously forgot to mention. And the only tool that looks almost new. Almost straight out of the box in fact. This was from a different sale then, I take it ? It's just seems so strange that you'd never previously boasted of owning this latest, and so very expensive acquisition of yours.

It stands to reason you'd have to own the most expensive camera as well, now doesn't it ? After all, if all your pictures turn out to be rubbish, you at least have the consolation of knowing that you can still boast about how expensive the camera was.

Maybe the bust wedding photographer who put it in the auction, thought exactly the same way as you, eh ?

You still don't get it, do you ?

Just because a person is rich enough to own a Stradivarius violin that doesn't make them a great violinist or even any sort of violinist at all. In fact many of the finest instruments are owned by rich individuals who treat them as an investment and loan them out to virtuosi who certainly couldn't afford to buy such instruments for themselves.

Clearly nobody has ever explained to you, that boasting of expensive possessions, and thus the wealth necessary to procure them, is simply seen by some people as an attempt to mask an inferiority complex in individuals who believe, rightly or wrongly, that without these possessions, nobody would take them seriously, or listen to what they have to say.

Not of course that most people would class an assortment of second-hand woodworking equipment piled up in a dusty garage as expensive possessions in the first place. But it all depends on what a person is used to, I suppose.

But let's just say that in my case at least, this killer stratagem of yours doesn't appear to be working out all that well. In fact to be brutally honest with you I've seen better gear than some of that, ending up in a skip.

Or maybe....no, lets not go there, eh ?

However, inferiority complex or not, the fact remains that you lied about what I posted

....................................................................

I haven't forgotten it, as I never said it.

What I actually said was

"Drawing lines is one thing. Machining or cutting timber, or timber based products, to the same degree of precision, is another."

In other words more difficult.

You see you've been caught out in a lie again.

........................................................................

There being no reply from you, naturally.

So that regardless of anything else, the fact is that you lied, and are a proven liar. And this will be a matter of public record for perpetuity and/or for just so long as Google or any subsequent archive survives. As will of course be the fact, that before I mentioned them you'd never, ever, heard of dimension saws.

michael adams

...

[fred]

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ush-set/invt/0189805

ch-natural/invt/0328282

Just sticks in your throat doesn't it? To think someone could own all that gear and you have f*ck all. You certainly have so far signally failed to pr ovide any detail of either your experience or equipment. Yes it is possible to discuss equipment amongst rational people who don't take it as a pissin g match.

What you would have been happier if I had used the News of the World ?

The Elus were bought new. But that is of course irrelevant.

WTF are you rambling on about the routers having cutters still mounted in t hem.

Of course they have if they are being used for repetitive tasks. What remov e the cutters and fence setting times every time your set down the machine. Oh that makes good sense. Not.

I never buy second hand machines so your words of wisdom on that account ar e wasted apart from being tripe.

Who says the Festool Domino is the one tool never mentioned ? (Incidentally its dust free because its kept in it box.)

We also have Festool jigsaws and the latest acquisition, and well worth the in excess of £2000 price is this beauty

I'd send you a picture of ours but what's the point.

Who said it was my garage ?

Who said you could see all of it to judge its condition.

What sort of a workshop doesn't have its fair share of dust?

Sorry. That's NOT an expensive camera.Just showing your ignorance again. No w you're an expert in photographic equipment, what ?

You really will have to stop comparing yourself to your superiors. It may a ppear to be an expensive camera to YOU but it certainly isn't in the eyes o f many keen photographers I know. The only reason I illustrated it is becau se it is such a new model to the market that lots of current software has n ot yet been updated to de-code its raw file format. If you had taken me up on my offer to provide raw file you would have needed to know that.You of c ourse assume I was boasting.

Would you like to see the Leicas ?(yes plural).

Youre the tithead that kept implying I didn't have any of the equipment und er discussion. Now that I have illustrated it as proof you claim I am boast ing.

Maybe I should show you a picture of my BMW 730d

or my wife's Black BMW 640 ?

Or our Fairline cabin cruiser ?

Choke on it, but you just know its all true.

I'm fed up trying to have a rational discussion with someone so eaten away with jealousy and riven with irrationalities

We're off to Baiona for a few weeks and I'm buggered if I'm going to have t ime to indulge myself with your paranoid ramblings but feel free to keep be ating yourself up.

[fred]

ed/invt/0267255

brush-set/invt/0189805

7

t gear and you have f*ck all. You certainly have so far signally failed to provide any detail of either your experience or equipment. Yes it is possib le to discuss equipment amongst rational people who don't take it as a piss ing match.

ove the cutters and fence setting times every time your set down the machin e. Oh that makes good sense. Not.

are wasted apart from being tripe.

ly its dust free because its kept in it box.)

he in excess of £2000 price is this beauty

Now you're an expert in photographic equipment, what ?

appear to be an expensive camera to YOU but it certainly isn't in the eyes of many keen photographers I know. The only reason I illustrated it is bec ause it is such a new model to the market that lots of current software has not yet been updated to de-code its raw file format. If you had taken me u p on my offer to provide raw file you would have needed to know that.You of course assume I was boasting.

nder discussion. Now that I have illustrated it as proof you claim I am boa sting.

y with jealousy and riven with irrationalities

time to indulge myself with your paranoid ramblings but feel free to keep beating yourself up.

Sorry !

Couldn't resist rubbing your nose in it.

Couldn't find the Observer colour magasine but that's the main news section hanging over her number plate if you look closely

I'll send you a picture of the Fairline when I get back if you like

[tony sayer]

Whilst there can you and your sparring partner please learn to,

... SNIP ....

the grillions of lines so that we don't have to scroll down for a few minutes to read the words of wisdom thus writ;!..

Thanks...

[Richard]

Ooohhhh! Can't wait. Judging from the posts thus far, your missus must be hot, hot, hot. Pics please and no need to cover her with the magazine.

[michael adams]

Well this -

"We use an Altendorf sliding table saw, which you so amusingly call a dimension saw,"

or this

" You have never used or seen being used a dimensioning saw. YOu didn't even know what they were called. (Hint NOT dimension saw)"

when combined with this -

should be a start.

It would seem that I'm not the only one who's been "amusingly" calling them "dimension saws" for the past 25 years.

Of course they don't show up on the first page of a Google search, assuming they appear at all. Not that that would have anything to do with it, of course.

michael adams

...

[michael adams]

Two cars. So ?

You live in Ireland, out in the country by the looks of things. Probably miles from the nearest bus route, and even further from the train.

So how else are you supposed to get around, and bring home your shopping from the supermarket, a donkey cart ?

Beemers ? Not exactly short on the ground and plenty of finance available

That's assuming you bought new of course.

michael adams

...

[michael adams]

So Mr Smith, which word or words or phrases in the following paragraph which was included in my very last post, are you having the greatest difficulty in understanding ?

"Clearly nobody has ever explained to you, that boasting of expensive possessions, and thus the wealth necessary to procure them, is simply seen by some people as an attempt to mask an inferiority complex in individuals who believe, rightly or wrongly, that without these possessions, nobody would take them seriously, or listen to what they have to say."

Er no. As with logical thinking, the meaning of simple English words doesn't seem to be one of your strong points either, does it ?

You "boasted" about having this equipment before. Now that you've actually posted pictures, this merely goes to prove how desperate you are to impress somebody or other that you do in fact own it. As if anybody myself included cares one way or another. Why should I or anyone else care what sort of equipment some total stranger on Usenet actually owns?

The likes of footballers such as Wayne Rooney earn more every month just for running around for a couple of hours than most people earn in a year.

Now just imagine how many Leicas the likes of Wayne Rooney could afford to buy every week, and not even notice.

michael adams

...

[michael adams]

You're totally wasting your time with that one I'm afraid. He's posting through Google Groups and he apparently hasn't learned how to reply in line, or to trim.

And please don't lump me in with him. I'm trimming every single reply.

The only surprise to me is that anyone else is bothering to read this tedious drivel any more.

michael adams

...

[michael adams]

That won't be me, I'm afraid. From a previous post -

"Clearly nobody has ever explained to you, that boasting of expensive possessions, and thus the wealth necessary to procure them, is simply seen by some people as an attempt to mask an inferiority complex in individuals who believe, rightly or wrongly, that without these possessions, nobody would take them seriously, or listen to what they have to say."

And one of the few things I've never, ever, been accused of I can assure you, is having an inferiority complex.

I'm just hanging on in the hopes of a possible Ashley Young moment.

michael adams

...

[fred]

Has the penny not dropped yet? You're thick as a double ditch. I'm leading you by the nose and you're following like a sheep.

I know well how to trim but enjoy making you trawl through all the crap.