External wall woes

Hi
I have an external wall that forms the boundary of the yard. It is in a rather scruffy state and the pointing needs doing.
Ideally I’d like to render and paint it, but if I render it, do I need to do the pointing as well?
Also, presumably the render can’t go below the damp proof course, so how do you finish the area below there?
Many thanks
Seαn
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snipped-for-privacy@sean-connolly.co.uk wrote:

You need bell beading to go along the bottom (dpc) which will form a dripper. Below this level, I normally paint with black bitumen paint. Don't render it while there's a chance of frost, or if there's frost still in the wall....you don't need to point it as the open joints will act as a key for the render, which will need doing in two coats
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That's exactly what I needed to know thank you.
As frost pretty much rules out doing this for the foreseeable future, can you do the pointing when there is frost about?
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On 12/12/2012 18:37, snipped-for-privacy@sean-connolly.co.uk wrote:

Looks up "you don't need to point it"
In fact the implication is you shouldn't, the render will hold on better if you don't.
Andy
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snipped-for-privacy@sean-connolly.co.uk wrote:

Pointing is not recommended while there is frost about for the same reasons you don't render when there's frost about. You don't do anything involving any cement based product when it's freezing unless it's an emergency, you know what you're doing and have the right additives sorted out, and even then it's accepted that it will be a temporary job, to be re-done when the temperature rises.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

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I suspected as much, arse :(
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er... if the inside "core" of the wall is at -1 and the surface at say +4 why would you have to wait until the core defrosts before rendering the surface?
Jim K
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Jim K wrote:

Because the moisture frozen inside the wall has expanded, and when it thaws it shrinks....trying to render bricks that are still frozen on one side isn't a good idea
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really? your "it" being moisture?

??? even though you would be rendering the unfrozen side?
Jim K
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Jim K wrote:

Yes, moisture, IE water - it expands, that is, it gets bigger when it freezes, then when it gets warmer, it thaws, that means it melts, which makes it smaller, kapeesh?

It's only 4 inches thick and the back part of it would still be frozen, which is why it's better to leave it untill the wall has completely defrosted
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??? because...... IOW any theory in there?
Jim K
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On 20/12/2012 17:30, Jim K wrote:

On the basis that freezing any cement products before they have fully cured is a bad idea, slapping render onto a wall which already has a core at -1 will, surely make it more likely than ever to freeze before achieving full cure? Especially as curing itself is slowed a lot by cold/freezing weather.
Maybe it would not be so important if you knew for sure that the curing period was going to coincide with a steady increase in temperature. But most of us don't.
That might not strictly be an answer to your question, but sure as hell, I wouldn't render anything in near-freezing conditions. With or without additives to prevent freezing.
--
Rod

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well not if its warming up - no ;>)
comcrete slabs with hay/straw spread on them to retain heat also spring to mind - they can't retain "that" much heat but it appears to work enough to bother with?

weather forecast?

some variables in there need firming up - "curing period", "near freezing conditions"
Jim K
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On 20/12/2012 18:59, Jim K wrote:

A slab will be producing some heat due to the exothermic processes. The thinness of a render makes that ignorable.
I don't trust the weather forecast that much.
Several cement companies suggest not rendering when the environment is under 10 C.
Anyway, I said "I wouldn't ..." which would indeed be my choice. At least partly because I don't fancy freezing while doing it.
--
Rod

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is the correct answer
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polygonum wrote:

Jim's being argumentative because in a different thread, he said he thinks that charging a customer for 2 bags of plaster @ £4 each is a rip off, wheras plasterers should charge them upwards of £200 for extra labour instead.
Really
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really??
ho ho ho tis the season!!
ISTR in said plastering thread you couldn't offer any rational reason for your "pro guide" of taking a flat smooth plasterboard wall, f**cking it up by slapping 1 coat of plaster on it "any old how" then slapping another coat on to "smooth it out again".....
where is the logic in that? apart from making more work for dodgy plasterers & halfwit billduhs?
Clearly you don;t know why- you just shout "its da way we always dun it guv" and appear unable to apply any logic to what you preach - same thing with the cold wall shit - your "reasoning" is just regurgitated BS tripe as far as I can make out - were you appprentice "trained" perchance?
E.g. How TF would you know if the core of a wall is frozen?
Simples?
Jim K
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On 20/12/2012 20:57, Jim K wrote:

Last time I had any significant plastering that was done by a friend at a very good price. He did two coats of board finish. He could easily have done one coat if he thought it better/the right approach.
Last night was a bit parky, better check the wall temperature with my IR thermometer.
--
Rod

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He could do as many or as few coats as he wanted - could he explain why though?

remember to take your drill/big hammer to get to the "crucial" core temp tho......
Jim K
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Jim K wrote:

You obviously missed, couldn't understand or completely ignored this message in that thread:
I've been plastering on and off for 30 years and I know that it takes twice as long to get one coat flat than it does with two coats, everyone else knows this too, so this is what they do, you don't have to if you don't want, and if you've only got a few patches to do, then it's fine to do it in one, but when you've got several rooms and ceilings to do, or even full houses, everything gets two coats, it gives you more time to first coat new walls, IE mix 1 - first coat a ceiling mix 2 - first coat 2 walls in a different room mix 3 - second coat ceiling and first coat another wall mix 4 - second coat first two walls mix 5 - second coat third wall and so on

So you plaster one wall with one coat, stand around waiting for 30 minutes for it to become ready for trowelling, trowel it up, then repeat for the second wall? You can't get a second wall on while the first is going off, and moreover, if you did, the 2nd wall would be rock hard by the time you'd trowelled the first So in a day you might get four walls done - bravo - you've saved four quids worth of plaster - you can go and spend it on some frostproofer, while anyone who has plastered before will have done two or three rooms

It's likely to be still frozen if it's been below zero for a week and only above zero for a day or two, like it had when the OP suggested rendering his wall
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