external wall insulation grants

[sm_jamieson]

How do external wall insulation grants work ? I assume the work has to be d one be a registered company and they keep some of the grant money. We had leaflet through the door saying the recent release of grant money is about to run out and get in quick with a survey.

They do have some weasel words: "If and when you are happy to proceed we wi ll to everything to secure funding for you". Of course you want funding gua ranteed before you are "happy to proceed" (a small admin free would be reas onable).

I suppose the householder could get the grant agreed themselves we some eff ort, even if the work cannot be DIYed.

Anyway, we would be interested in just the main side gable wall being done if it cost us very little. Any chance of the grant covering nearly all the cost, if only part of the house is being done ? Or is there a maximum perce ntage of the work funded by the grant ?

Simon.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

We had ours done, and we got those sticky poly beads (called PolyPearl, I think, unless that's another product with a similar name), which are supposed to be good. Loft insulation, too. So, our experience was good, and we basically just had to sign the bits of paper they waved at us, and that was it. We're not even pensioners, or anything like that. It was just nice to 'get something back', as they say.

Having said that, you do hear of bad experiences on the internet, and of people who ended up having to pay for things like hire of scaffolding (whereas we did not). So, I can only suggest that you clear these things up front, especially if you have a few companies to choose from.

[spuorgelgoog]

Not a lot of effort. Check the Energy Saving Trust website for details of any grants available in your area.

It appears best to phone them.

Also worth checking with local council as sometimes there are local schemes too.

For Green Deal you have to get a survey done first by an Green Deal assessor. This costs you money but you may be able to claim it back if you get recommended work done.

Green Deal assessors/providers are at

Owain

[Reentrant]

You might want to read this first; Jeff Howell of the Telegraph often writes about major problems with retro-installed CWI.

[sm_jamieson]

Up to date info here:

It says you need first a Green Deal assessment survey or EPC survey. I wonder if an "EPC survey" is cheaper. I know a guy who does these.

But seriously, surely proof that you have solid walls should be enough. Why are there always conditions to use "registered" persons ? Oh yes, to make sure you are not extorting the government ...

Simon.

[Jonno]

sm_jamieson scribbled

Got gas ?

[Andrew]

Which makes it even worse. A solid walled house, possibly with a not-to-good dpc relies on the walls being able to breath to get rid of moisture. if you clad the house with impermeable insulation on the outside then any defect in the dpc (which may not have been noticed before) will result in the moisture taking the least path of resistance, i.e. into the property.

Get advice from a proper surveyor who understands the problems associated with interstitial condensation.

[John Rumm]

It makes the problem "different". The risk with a cavity is that the insulation itself may allow moisture to track from one leaf to the other.

With a solid wall, you ideally want something breathable, to allow the traditional vapour exchange to continue.

Indeed - you can get the same issues with any impermeable coating on the outside including render, and various waterproofing products added in an attempt to eliminate damp.

There ought not be too much interstitial space in a solid wall ;-)

[tabbypurr]

In most materials there are interstices, certainly in brick & concrete. In an uninsulated solid wall, interstitial condensation is likely to occur, but the condensate can then evaporate from the outer surface, so no proble m. In an externally insulated solid wall, the masonry stays warm enough to avo id this condensation, so damp is avoided by different means. If water does get into the wall somehow, it then only has the interior surface to evapora te from. Which normally works fine.

NT

[sm_jamieson]

be done be a registered company and they keep some of the grant money.

y is about to run out and get in quick with a survey.

e will to everything to secure funding for you". Of course you want funding guaranteed before you are "happy to proceed" (a small admin free would be reasonable).

one if it cost us very little. Any chance of the grant covering nearly all the cost, if only part of the house is being done ? Or is there a maximum p ercentage of the work funded by the grant ?

Thanks for that tip. At least their survey appears to be genuinely free. A bloke is coming round on Monday. Simon.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Please keep us informed, Simon.

I too have 9" solid walls (Victorian house) and would like to find out the options for insulation. Doubt I'd want to do the front of the house as it would spoil the looks, but the flank wall and back is different.

[tony sayer]

In article , Dave Plowman (News) scribeth thus

From what I've seen of it Dave its either cladding on the outside or wallboard with insulation on the inside...

[The Other John]

I came across a website where the external insulation was panels like Kingspan, faced with real red brick 'slips', i.e. thin slivers of brick, so you can maintain an original red brick facade. Unfortunately I forgot to bookmark it but if you Google 'external insulation' it'll be in there somewhere.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

There is no chance I'm going to ruin my lovely cornices and skirting boards by cladding the inside. I'd rather freeze.

Same really applies to the outside at the front at least.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

My guess with that is would be it looks like what it is. I'll bet they use the wrong bond too.

I'd not mind decent looking cladding on the flank wall as the gap between the two houses is only about a metre, so not immediately visible. Something which looked like a decent smooth render would be acceptable to me.

[sm_jamieson]

The wall I am thinking about externally insulating has the chimney breasts on - 2 breasts carrying the downstairs and then upstairs flues into two chi mneys on the roof. If I insulate the wall externally, there will be a weak point with the cold air in the chimney being unside the insulation. For som e reason I had not though of the before. Obviously a lot of the breast is infill - the flue areas are about 9" squar e. Any thoughts ? I block the chimneys with a bag of loft insulation when not being used. I could insulate the chimney breasts with internal insulation I suppose. I do wonder though how much the chimney breasts reduce the benefits of the external insulation. Simon.

[sm_jamieson]

I have an entry about 1.2m widd between me and the next house, with gates l eading off into both of our gardens. I think it is probably a shared entry, i.e. all of it is owned by both of us. In theory I should get their permis sion for eating 3" into the entry space. Do you have that situation ? Simon.

[sm_jamieson]

A house down the road from us - same house design - is having the work done by RockWarm, who put the leaflet through our doors. They are having the fr ont done as well as the side and presumably the back. The houses have "ston e" circular bays up and down and a segmented arch around the front doors. T here are recesses around the "stone-work" (its actually painted cast concre te but the estate agents aways call it stone !) that make the fitting of in sulation on the front sort of work (mind you they will lose any sill projec tion), but the bit around the door looks a bit of a mess to us. So I might be inclined to avoid the front wall too. Simon.

[sm_jamieson]

Well, British Gas bloke is measuring up. First stage is measuring, not prod ucing the energy performance certificate, and I'm not sure if I will end up with a certifcate if I say no - he made it clear they are not just a free source of energy performance cetificates! Bloke comes across as fair - he p ointed out that they are more highly regulated than some smaller firms, whi ch is true. No signing before you know the total price, and after the grant has been arranged (by the householder online). The grant sum comes to the householder, not to British Gas. They will not insulate only part of a house due to possible problems on the remaining walls. He said they are looking at a disclaimer for people that want that. From his description it sounded like the insulation system is no t very flexible, and probably not up to what the people down the road are d oing, using thinner sections around the bay, etc. But the measuring up blok e may not know much detail about that. The sort of prices he was mentioning sound rather high to be honest. Its ma king me feel more like a DIY option. Its just that pesky modified render. Anyway, I'll go through the process and see what the cost would be. Simon.

[sm_jamieson]

oducing the energy performance certificate, and I'm not sure if I will end up with a certifcate if I say no - he made it clear they are not just a fre e source of energy performance cetificates! Bloke comes across as fair - he pointed out that they are more highly regulated than some smaller firms, w hich is true. No signing before you know the total price, and after the gra nt has been arranged (by the householder online).

he remaining walls. He said they are looking at a disclaimer for people tha t want that. From his description it sounded like the insulation system is not very flexible, and probably not up to what the people down the road are doing, using thinner sections around the bay, etc. But the measuring up bl oke may not know much detail about that.

making me feel more like a DIY option. Its just that pesky modified render.

Initial quote is just over £10000 for the 2.5 external walls. Needed £5

00 for extra scaffolding to get over the rear extension. Grant has recently been up to £3750. We decided it is simply too expensive for our bog-standard house in terms o f payback time, etc. And also that losing 4" from our shared entry, 8" if t he neighbours did it too, would be unacceptable. I can see how it would be worth it on a similar house in London due to its vastly increased value, or a new detached with a tatty exterior that needed re-rendering anway. But its back to 30mm insulated plasterboard in the back room ... Simon.