external wall insulation grants

[tabbypurr]

producing the energy performance certificate, and I'm not sure if I will en d up with a certifcate if I say no - he made it clear they are not just a f ree source of energy performance cetificates! Bloke comes across as fair - he pointed out that they are more highly regulated than some smaller firms, which is true. No signing before you know the total price, and after the g rant has been arranged (by the householder online).

the remaining walls. He said they are looking at a disclaimer for people t hat want that. From his description it sounded like the insulation system i s not very flexible, and probably not up to what the people down the road a re doing, using thinner sections around the bay, etc. But the measuring up bloke may not know much detail about that.

s making me feel more like a DIY option. Its just that pesky modified rende r.

£500 for extra scaffolding to get over the rear extension. Grant has rece ntly been up to £3750.

of payback time, etc. And also that losing 4" from our shared entry, 8" if the neighbours did it too, would be unacceptable.

s vastly increased value, or a new detached with a tatty exterior that need ed re-rendering anway.

kinell, you could diy it for 100s. BG does wildly overcharge IMLE.

NT

[sm_jamieson]

t producing the energy performance certificate, and I'm not sure if I will end up with a certifcate if I say no - he made it clear they are not just a free source of energy performance cetificates! Bloke comes across as fair

- he pointed out that they are more highly regulated than some smaller firm s, which is true. No signing before you know the total price, and after the grant has been arranged (by the householder online).

on the remaining walls. He said they are looking at a disclaimer for people that want that. From his description it sounded like the insulation system is not very flexible, and probably not up to what the people down the road are doing, using thinner sections around the bay, etc. But the measuring u p bloke may not know much detail about that.

Its making me feel more like a DIY option. Its just that pesky modified ren der.

£500 for extra scaffolding to get over the rear extension. Grant has rece ntly been up to £3750.

ms of payback time, etc. And also that losing 4" from our shared entry, 8" if the neighbours did it too, would be unacceptable.

its vastly increased value, or a new detached with a tatty exterior that ne eded re-rendering anway.

The cost is fairly typical I believe.

If anyone has got details/costs of the "system" for a DIYer I would be inte rested.

First thought - "bung on some celotex and render it - how difficult can tha t be ?"

First layer - insulation board - foam or polystyrene - fixed with insulated fasteners and/or bonded. Second layer - strengthening mesh, bonded on. Final layer - 10mm of modified / synthetic render (not sand/cement).

If it is a DIYable solution, some DIYers must have done it. Anyone ?

Simon.

[sm_jamieson]

This is interesting and a bit head scratching:

[Andy Burns]

Kingspan appear to have done render panels a few years ago, that was pre-rendered, and sort of ship-lapped, but apparently no longer.

Celotex SW3000 appears to combine your first two layers ready for direct rendering ...

[sm_jamieson]

This page contains a video of the system:

It uses a two coat render with mesh in the middle, then a "top coat" (paint ?). Like most of these things you think "how on earth is that a 10 grand job !". I suspect it is the render that is the specialist job - some type of plasticky clever stuff. Its sometimes hard to get information about products that are usually wrapped up as a "system".

Something like this ?

Simon.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

On 'Grand Designs' type of progs they often seem to use a lime based render.

[Andy Burns]

ISTR the Hufhaus shown on Grand Designs used a pre-rendered panel in the factory, but they were very coy about the supplier ...

[tabbypurr]

not producing the energy performance certificate, and I'm not sure if I wil l end up with a certifcate if I say no - he made it clear they are not just a free source of energy performance cetificates! Bloke comes across as fai r - he pointed out that they are more highly regulated than some smaller fi rms, which is true. No signing before you know the total price, and after t he grant has been arranged (by the householder online).

s on the remaining walls. He said they are looking at a disclaimer for peop le that want that. From his description it sounded like the insulation syst em is not very flexible, and probably not up to what the people down the ro ad are doing, using thinner sections around the bay, etc. But the measuring up bloke may not know much detail about that.

. Its making me feel more like a DIY option. Its just that pesky modified r ender.

d £500 for extra scaffolding to get over the rear extension. Grant has re cently been up to £3750.

erms of payback time, etc. And also that losing 4" from our shared entry, 8 " if the neighbours did it too, would be unacceptable.

o its vastly increased value, or a new detached with a tatty exterior that needed re-rendering anway.

I'll come do it for 9 then. I'd make at least 2 grand a day.

NT

[sm_jamieson]

, not producing the energy performance certificate, and I'm not sure if I w ill end up with a certifcate if I say no - he made it clear they are not ju st a free source of energy performance cetificates! Bloke comes across as f air - he pointed out that they are more highly regulated than some smaller firms, which is true. No signing before you know the total price, and after the grant has been arranged (by the householder online).

ems on the remaining walls. He said they are looking at a disclaimer for pe ople that want that. From his description it sounded like the insulation sy stem is not very flexible, and probably not up to what the people down the road are doing, using thinner sections around the bay, etc. But the measuri ng up bloke may not know much detail about that.

st. Its making me feel more like a DIY option. Its just that pesky modified render.

ded £500 for extra scaffolding to get over the rear extension. Grant has recently been up to £3750.

terms of payback time, etc. And also that losing 4" from our shared entry, 8" if the neighbours did it too, would be unacceptable.

to its vastly increased value, or a new detached with a tatty exterior tha t needed re-rendering anway.

Apparently it takes them 3 weeks (! or ?)

Simon.

[tabbypurr]

ng, not producing the energy performance certificate, and I'm not sure if I will end up with a certifcate if I say no - he made it clear they are not just a free source of energy performance cetificates! Bloke comes across as fair - he pointed out that they are more highly regulated than some smalle r firms, which is true. No signing before you know the total price, and aft er the grant has been arranged (by the householder online).

blems on the remaining walls. He said they are looking at a disclaimer for people that want that. From his description it sounded like the insulation system is not very flexible, and probably not up to what the people down th e road are doing, using thinner sections around the bay, etc. But the measu ring up bloke may not know much detail about that.

nest. Its making me feel more like a DIY option. Its just that pesky modifi ed render.

eeded £500 for extra scaffolding to get over the rear extension. Grant ha s recently been up to £3750.

in terms of payback time, etc. And also that losing 4" from our shared entr y, 8" if the neighbours did it too, would be unacceptable.

ue to its vastly increased value, or a new detached with a tatty exterior t hat needed re-rendering anway.

3 grand a week, not bad. For them.

NT

[John Rumm]

I came to the conclusion that skipping the render and weatherboarding the outside would work well for me.

[John Rumm]

Having priced it, you can't DIY for hundreds - thousands certainly.

[tabbypurr]

t producing the energy performance certificate, and I'm not sure if I will end up with a certifcate if I say no - he made it clear they are not just a free source of energy performance cetificates! Bloke comes across as fair

- he pointed out that they are more highly regulated than some smaller firm s, which is true. No signing before you know the total price, and after the grant has been arranged (by the householder online).

on the remaining walls. He said they are looking at a disclaimer for people that want that. From his description it sounded like the insulation system is not very flexible, and probably not up to what the people down the road are doing, using thinner sections around the bay, etc. But the measuring u p bloke may not know much detail about that.

Its making me feel more like a DIY option. Its just that pesky modified ren der.

£500 for extra scaffolding to get over the rear extension. Grant has rec ently been up to £3750.

rms of payback time, etc. And also that losing 4" from our shared entry, 8" if the neighbours did it too, would be unacceptable.

its vastly increased value, or a new detached with a tatty exterior that n eeded re-rendering anway.

I cuold diy it for under £100 using papercrete

NT

[sm_jamieson]

If the house style made that work, I would agree. And there is some good fake wood around that would reduce maintenance costs.

Can you give a rough breakdown of costs ? Is the render a major expense ?

What would be the DIY cost of just a single gable wall about

8m wide x 5m high with an 8m base x 3m triangle on top ?

Simon.

[John Rumm]

What U value will you achieve, and what are you going to clad/finish it with?

Can you highlight other similarly insulated buildings in the UK?

[John Rumm]

When I looked at it, I was working on a total area needing doing of about 110m^2 (doing three walls - leaving the front untouched since that is A) decorative, and B) mostly windows and doors save a couple of dwarf walls below windows.

The insulation boards would probably only be £600 at local prices (we have a good "seconds" place near). Allow another £200 for fixings say.

If you went with traditional render, the the cost of expanded metal lath alone would be quite hight (although a quick web search today shows it costing less than last time I looked - now probably £1600 - £2000 (for stainless - galvanised a bit cheaper)). The the materials cost for the render... say £300 ish and £100 for paint probably.

Light weight render would push up the insulation cost a bit (to get one with a mesh face), and would probably be several K if you had to get someone in to do it. Not sure how easy it is to DIY. However you would lose the cost of the EML.

The alternative I looked at was fix tile batten at 600mm c/c, then board it with feather edge. Probably a couple of K for the timber, but easier to do unless you particularly enjoy rendering.

So about 64m^2? - say half the costs above.

[tabbypurr]

ed £500 for extra scaffolding to get over the rear extension. Grant has r ecently been up to £3750.

Its years since I looked into all this. IIRC it gets about R2.5 per inch in US units, that's about 0.4 in our units. Final value depends on thickness of course. So it benefits from going on rather thicker than celotex etc.

papercrete, a good stiff high cement final layer with plenty of lime. Then paint on silicone water repellant.

No, lots of experience with papercrete exists in the US, in a range of clim ates, and the results are very favourable, but its seen little use here.

Its necessary to pick a suitable mix for a given job, and I can't even reme mber what I was using - it was stronger than typical US mixes due to our we t climate. I recall it achieving impressive compressive strength, but very low tensile strength.

I can't see it getting BR approval unless one did some thorough testing bac ked by an expert report, and even then BR approval is a long way from a sur e thing.

As insulating cladding, its extremely cheap and can replace a 10k price tag with nearer £100, making it add up where celotex doesn't. But its not la cking in issues that need proper knowledge to address effectively.

NT

[John Rumm]

One of the problems with external insulation applications is keeping the thickness down - to stay under the eves, and not close off window reveals etc. I guess I could use a maximum of about 60mm + cladding.

With the values you are citing there, you would need 5" of papercrete to match 50mm of PIR foam. For many applications that is going to be a show stopper.

Water repellent alone would be more than £100 for the areas I need!

Tensile probably does not matter for that application.

From my point of view (i.e. if DIYing) the cost of the insulation itself is almost neither here nor there. Using PIR board would be £500 to £700 - however its lots of work I would like to do only once, and then get the best possible insulation for the available space that I can. Going the papercrete route would mean 2.5 x the payback duration.