Does your friend (?) have no modern appliances in his 'North Britian'
No freezer, no fridge no dryer, no dish washer, no washing machine? Just a
wee 15W lamp to huddle around ... no electric pumps to circulate his
gas-heated water through his radiators?
Sounds like ' t'was the night before Christmas and all through the hoos
....' without modern comforts.
How much electricity does his 'gas-fired' heater consume? depending on when
a 'night' starts and stops he(?) seems to using roughly a unit (KwH) per
hour .... now lessee, Sky+ box ..., fridge ...., freezer .... central
heating gubbins .... soon adds up/
[Then theres' the hydroponics and day-light lamps in the loft ... :) ]
Follow the advice to isolate items and verify their consumption ... :)
I have lots of modern appliances in my not-quite-so-north-Britain flat
and use 1600 kWh per annum.
Admittedly I don't have a freezer, dryer, dishwasher, the washer is used
only on full loads, and everything is unplugged at night.
Golly, it's years since I was posted to Scotland and my more recent visits
have been fleeting shuttle visits to Glasgow with a clear intention of
catching the flight back to Heathrow preferably before dark ... but I hadn't
realised how hard your life was across the border! unplug _everything_ at
No freezer? You probably have to go to the fleshers each day for your fresh
haggis. Not having a dryer must be tough .... what do they say in
Helensburgh? ... If you can see across the loch, it's going to rain; if you
can't see across the loch ... it's raining! And you must love winding up
your clock each day not having a timer/clock on an oven, nor a microwave
oven. Do you still have the old fashioned 'phone? Connected to the wall by
a fixed cord? It's not the old cotton covered plaited cord connected to a
bakelite (any colour as long as it's black) receiver is it?
Hmmm .... you haven't mentioned 'fridge' .... do you have one? Is it
unplugged at night?
Modem, computer etc ... all unplugged?
But this 'My friend has a problem' meter saga has gone for too long.
Tesco is three minutes' walk away and they have perfectly good freezers.
It is so mild here that I was in Edinburgh yesterday wearing only a
sweatshirt (on my upper half).
Oven switched off at the wall when not in use. Battery clock.
Switched off at the wall when not in use.
Yes. Lots of them.
One of them is black bakelite, yes.
No, the fridge isn't, but I don't expect it uses much electricity at
night. The door isn't open and the light isn't on.
What is plugged in at night is:
1 small clock-radio
1 telephone speed-dialler
1 answering machine
1 central heating timer
1 emergency lighting unit
I wouldn't say my parents were mean, but when I was a child we were only
allowed to have the christmas tree lights on if we were actually looking
at the tree.
Drying ... in the pollution ridden 'outside' with all the birds flitting
past require wind and low humidity ... doesn't it? Mild could be poor
But ... you don't know; you just expect .... just as I suspected you were
being 'economical with the truth' when you you claimed _everything
As you say ... 'not quite everything' when challenged .... why say
You had _electric lights_ on your Christmas tree? I'd guess your parents
weren't/aren't 'Wee Frees' then. When I were knee-high to a grasshopper; we
had _candles_ on the tree ... we _had_ to be actually looking at them to
light the blasted little things!
That covers the range we use. Leck trickery used for cooking, lighting,
(3 x 58W florries and 6 x 9W CFLs on most of the day), computers (3),
fridge/freezer (1), fridge (1). Also a 3 bed house.
The quoted lighting accounts for about 3 units/day.
Computers the best part of 5 units/day.
The small loads on for a long time catch people out when it comes to
power consumption. Just timed our 3kW kettle, full, 8 cup (1.5l?) and
heating from cold, 3'40" or 0.18kWHr or the same as a single 60W bulb for
They should come and test but do the basic tests already mentioned. It
might not be practical with just a lone 100W light bulb due to the time
but if you have a heater (room, immersion) that will speed things up.
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
Hi my friend did some testing this morning. Everything was switched off
except for a light. He used a power usage monitor which recorded the power
consumed as 120 watts. At the same time I watched the meter dial going round
and it took 1 min and 16 seconds. The meter states that 200 revolution is
1KW. I worked that out as 1KW every 2 hours 20 mins.if the dial takes 78
secs to do 1 revolution. Could someone check my figures. Also using the
power monitor his central heating pump is using 130 watts. Is this about
correct for a central heating pump?
Also he has been in the house 30 years from when it was built and his meter
reading is 77725 which gives an average yearly reading of 2590 assuming that
the meter started off at zero. Yet in the past 205 days he has used 4150 KW.
This is when he change supplier that is why he knows the reading. And there
has been no drastic change in his electricity usage in that time. He is
getting nowhere with EDF at the moment I told him to phone up and tell them
he was changing supplier unless they came and changed his meter.
If the meter does 200 revs per kilowatt-hour (kWh) then 1 revolution is
5 watt-hours (energy).
A revolution in 1 min 16 s (76 s) means consumption of 5 Wh per 76/3600
hr i.e. the power being drawn is 5 * 3600 / 76 watts which is 237 watts.
At that power it will take over 4 hours to clock up 1 kWh.
237 W is a lot more than 120 W, so either one of the meter or the
monitor is wrong (the cheap monitors are not usually that bad on a
resistive load), or something else is still switched on.
Repeat the experiment with a higher load (such as the proverbial one-bar
fire) and zero load.
A touch high perhaps, but not a million miles out.
If he's had the same meter for 30 years it's well-overdue for
re-certification! Now would not be a good time to change supplier as
there'll be endless confusion about what the present supplier's final
bill should be. Isn't there statutory right to have your meter tested?
Have a look at the Energywatch site.
Everything was switched off except for a lamp with 2 X 60 watt bulbs in it
hence the 120 watts. The power monitor is the same as the Maplins one it has
been to a few houses checking power consumption and always seems to be
Various things were measured and the electricity meter always went faster
than what the power monitor showed.
Also as stated he has been in the house 30 years from when it was built and
his meter reading is 77725 which gives an average yearly reading of 2590,
assuming that the meter started off at zero. Yet in the past 205 days he has
used 4150 KW.
Also he has no immersion, water heated by gas, no electric fire, does not
even have one in the house and I searched for it :-)again heating by gas,
fridge freezer that has been checked by power meter and the night he used 8
units of electricity he switched everything off including sky box, video
etc, and it was not cold enough to have his GAS central heating left on all
night. So where did the 8 KW of electricity come from?
Conclusion electric meter must be at fault but try persuading EDF about
Did you know that when you switch everything off at the consumer unit it can
take a few minutes for your electric meter to slow down? I did not know that
but that is what my friend was told by the person he was speaking to at EDF.
SHEESH!!!!! or whatever
any quick and easy way to check what user my son has left the computer in as
I keep finding that sometimes when I post I am 2 different people/
On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:05:24 GMT someone who may be "Jackie"
The person at EDF was talking round objects. There is negligible
inertia in a spinning disc meter. If you and your friends have ruled
out things like freezers then take it up with the Energywatch.
However, before doing so, do turn off the electricity at the main
switch and see what the meter does. Use a torch to see what it is
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
Are you sure, it's easy to forget things that you never switch on/off in
the nromal course of events. Best to pull all the fuses or trip the MCBs
then power just one circuit up and put your test load on that.
If his meter has not been chnaged it is twenty years overdue for routine
replacement. ISTR that there is a statutary(?) requirement for
electricity meters to be replaced every 10 years. They tend to be
replaced by refurbished and recalibrated units so the reading almost
certainly wouldn't be zero.
Is EDF the company he pays for power or the company that owns/maintains
the wires that feed it to him? It is the latter that needs to be
contacted about a possible meter fault.
One word: Bollocks. If the meter doesn't stop when you switch of the main
switch it definately *is* faulty.
ctl-alt-del should bring up a dialogue asking what you want to do. I
think the current user name is shown there but as I rarely use windows I
could be well wrong.
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
If his meter had not started at zero his average would have been less than
<If his meter has not been changed it is twenty years overdue for routine
<replacement. ISTR that there is a statutory(?) requirement for
<electricity meters to be replaced every 10 years. They tend to be
<replaced by refurbished and recalibrated units so the reading almost
<certainly wouldn't be zero.
I have lived in my house from 1991 and my electric meter is the original.
Although my gas meter was changed in July 03
<Is EDF the company he pays for power or the company that owns/maintains
<the wires that feed it to him? It is the latter that needs to be
<contacted about a possible meter fault.
EDF is the company he pays to supply his energy, who knows who is
responsible for the wires. It used to be Hydro Electric.
I know it is bollocks I just used that to give you an idea of what he is up
against. Did you not notice the SHEESH!!!!
It is definataly his meter that is faulty, his consumption has increased as
in the number of killowatts he is using which costs more money "not the fact
that the energy prices had increased."
When I moved into this house I took a reading (or was given a reading by the
builders, cannot remember) but anyway that reading was 34072 and my present
reading is 95822 so I have used 61750 units in 5441 days at an average daily
usage of 11.349 so maybe my reading is too high?
When I get my power monitor back from him everything is going to get
So back to my original question
How can he get them to come and check whether his meter is faulty? He lives
in Scotland and used to be supplied by Hydro Electric who are now known as
Southern Electricity however it is EDF energy to whom he pays his bills?
And who does he complain to if EDF energy don't give him a new meter, or at
least check the old one. And should I complain to EDF that I am still using
the original meter that was installed when my house was built?
Thanks all Jackie
On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:49:30 GMT, Jackie wrote:
Depends (or I should say it depended) on the type of meter. A normal
domestic 'quarterly' meter was 20 years. Not 100% certain on two-rate (E7)
meters, I think they were also 20 years, but they might just have been 15.
There should be a little sticker on the front of the meter which indicates
when it was certified.
The company that *owns* the wires.
Scottish and Southern, head office in Perth.
I doubt it, and I've had *far* more experience than you in dealing with
meter complaints. On average we'd get perhaps 2 or 3 substantiated cases
per year, of *all* meter types - including commercial/industrial.
I gave you advice previously how to go about reliably checking to be
certain if it is the meter or an installation problem. Is it just that
you've made up your mind and it doesn't matter what anybody else says.
Then do yourself a favour and first look back through the thread and tackle
it logically. Convince yourseelf and your mate that the meter's faulty when
perhaps it isn't and S&S will almost certainly charge him when they come to
investigate and find that the meter's OK.
Don't piss about with a power monitor. You're wasting your time, and you'll
lead yourselves well and truly up the garden path. All you need to do a
meter accuracy check is a known load and a decent stop watch.
When you've isolated *every* bit of load from the installation switch on a
known load of say 2kw - typically a fire. Remember also that many modern 3
bar fires may not have 1kw elements.
The disc in the meter has a black mark on the edge, specifically for
timing. When the marks passes centre front, start the stop watch and run it
for, say, 2 minutes, counting the number of revolutions. The meter will be
marked with a specimen number of revs per kwh, so use a bit of simple maths
and you'll be able to fairly accurately check the accuracy of the meter.
First you stop convincing yourself that it is the meter that's faulty when
it appears you haven't carried out the checks that I and others have
outlined to you.
You get him to carry out those checks, and actually make a few brief notes
of what he's actually done. You mentioned that it was a semi - has he
actually checked in the loft? Others have also suggested an immersion
heater on 24/7. Is the immersion controlled by a timeswitch? Is that stuck
on? There are lots of things to check *before* going to S&S to complain
about the meter.
If, after carrying out those tests, he can then satisfy himself that it
actually is the meter that's at fault, then give S&S a bell and tell them
that he has a faulty meter. Making a note of what he's done will strengthen
his case to get them to come and check.
Of course, if he ain't prepared to carry out those tests, then tell him to
'phone them straight away, but be prepared for a bill if they find it ain't
My point was that is would be most unusual for someone to have the same
meter for 30 years. They are normally changed every 10 - 20 years and
re-certified. So the 77,700 units could have been used over a shorter
That's absolute rubbish, as David has said. They stop (and speed up)
almost instantly - see for yourself using something like a kettle.
Watch the meter stop (or slow down) when the kettle clicks off.
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