excessive electricity usage

wrote:

Immersion heater left on?
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
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When my consumption shot up I, eventually, discovered that the chest freezer control knob was broken and that the freezer compressor was running nearly all the time!
Peter
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Does your friend (?) have no modern appliances in his 'North Britian' wee-croft? No freezer, no fridge no dryer, no dish washer, no washing machine? Just a wee 15W lamp to huddle around ... no electric pumps to circulate his gas-heated water through his radiators? Sounds like ' t'was the night before Christmas and all through the hoos ....' without modern comforts. How much electricity does his 'gas-fired' heater consume? depending on when a 'night' starts and stops he(?) seems to using roughly a unit (KwH) per hour .... now lessee, Sky+ box ..., fridge ...., freezer .... central heating gubbins .... soon adds up/
[Then theres' the hydroponics and day-light lamps in the loft ... :) ]

Follow the advice to isolate items and verify their consumption ... :)
--

Brian



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Brian Sharrock wrote:

I have lots of modern appliances in my not-quite-so-north-Britain flat and use 1600 kWh per annum.
Admittedly I don't have a freezer, dryer, dishwasher, the washer is used only on full loads, and everything is unplugged at night.
Owain
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Golly, it's years since I was posted to Scotland and my more recent visits have been fleeting shuttle visits to Glasgow with a clear intention of catching the flight back to Heathrow preferably before dark ... but I hadn't realised how hard your life was across the border! unplug _everything_ at night! No freezer? You probably have to go to the fleshers each day for your fresh haggis. Not having a dryer must be tough .... what do they say in Helensburgh? ... If you can see across the loch, it's going to rain; if you can't see across the loch ... it's raining! And you must love winding up your clock each day not having a timer/clock on an oven, nor a microwave oven. Do you still have the old fashioned 'phone? Connected to the wall by a fixed cord? It's not the old cotton covered plaited cord connected to a bakelite (any colour as long as it's black) receiver is it? Hmmm .... you haven't mentioned 'fridge' .... do you have one? Is it unplugged at night? Modem, computer etc ... all unplugged?
But this 'My friend has a problem' meter saga has gone for too long.
--

Brian



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Brian Sharrock wrote:

Not /quite/ everything, but...

Tesco is three minutes' walk away and they have perfectly good freezers.

It is so mild here that I was in Edinburgh yesterday wearing only a sweatshirt (on my upper half).

Oven switched off at the wall when not in use. Battery clock.

Switched off at the wall when not in use.

Yes. Lots of them.

One of them is black bakelite, yes.

No, the fridge isn't, but I don't expect it uses much electricity at night. The door isn't open and the light isn't on.

Yes.
What is plugged in at night is:
1 small clock-radio 1 fridge 1 telephone speed-dialler 1 answering machine 1 central heating timer 1 emergency lighting unit
I wouldn't say my parents were mean, but when I was a child we were only allowed to have the christmas tree lights on if we were actually looking at the tree.
Owain
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Drying ... in the pollution ridden 'outside' with all the birds flitting past require wind and low humidity ... doesn't it? Mild could be poor drying!

But ... you don't know; you just expect .... just as I suspected you were being 'economical with the truth' when you you claimed _everything unplugged_!

As you say ... 'not quite everything' when challenged .... why say _everything unplugged_?

You had _electric lights_ on your Christmas tree? I'd guess your parents weren't/aren't 'Wee Frees' then. When I were knee-high to a grasshopper; we had _candles_ on the tree ... we _had_ to be actually looking at them to light the blasted little things!
--

Brian



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On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 00:33:16 GMT, Jackie wrote:

That covers the range we use. Leck trickery used for cooking, lighting, (3 x 58W florries and 6 x 9W CFLs on most of the day), computers (3), fridge/freezer (1), fridge (1). Also a 3 bed house.
The quoted lighting accounts for about 3 units/day. Computers the best part of 5 units/day.
The small loads on for a long time catch people out when it comes to power consumption. Just timed our 3kW kettle, full, 8 cup (1.5l?) and heating from cold, 3'40" or 0.18kWHr or the same as a single 60W bulb for 3hrs.

They should come and test but do the basic tests already mentioned. It might not be practical with just a lone 100W light bulb due to the time but if you have a heater (room, immersion) that will speed things up.
--
Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
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Hi my friend did some testing this morning. Everything was switched off except for a light. He used a power usage monitor which recorded the power consumed as 120 watts. At the same time I watched the meter dial going round and it took 1 min and 16 seconds. The meter states that 200 revolution is 1KW. I worked that out as 1KW every 2 hours 20 mins.if the dial takes 78 secs to do 1 revolution. Could someone check my figures. Also using the power monitor his central heating pump is using 130 watts. Is this about correct for a central heating pump?
Also he has been in the house 30 years from when it was built and his meter reading is 77725 which gives an average yearly reading of 2590 assuming that the meter started off at zero. Yet in the past 205 days he has used 4150 KW. This is when he change supplier that is why he knows the reading. And there has been no drastic change in his electricity usage in that time. He is getting nowhere with EDF at the moment I told him to phone up and tell them he was changing supplier unless they came and changed his meter. Thanks Jackie
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Ron wrote:

What sort?

If the meter does 200 revs per kilowatt-hour (kWh) then 1 revolution is 5 watt-hours (energy).
A revolution in 1 min 16 s (76 s) means consumption of 5 Wh per 76/3600 hr i.e. the power being drawn is 5 * 3600 / 76 watts which is 237 watts. At that power it will take over 4 hours to clock up 1 kWh.
237 W is a lot more than 120 W, so either one of the meter or the monitor is wrong (the cheap monitors are not usually that bad on a resistive load), or something else is still switched on.
Repeat the experiment with a higher load (such as the proverbial one-bar fire) and zero load.

A touch high perhaps, but not a million miles out.

If he's had the same meter for 30 years it's well-overdue for re-certification! Now would not be a good time to change supplier as there'll be endless confusion about what the present supplier's final bill should be. Isn't there statutory right to have your meter tested? Have a look at the Energywatch site.
--
Andy

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"Andy Wade" wrote:

Agreed. If the meter is faulty and he is due hundreds of pounds rebate it would be best to sort it out with the current energy supplier, then change suppliers if appropriate.
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Everything was switched off except for a lamp with 2 X 60 watt bulbs in it hence the 120 watts. The power monitor is the same as the Maplins one it has been to a few houses checking power consumption and always seems to be accurate. Various things were measured and the electricity meter always went faster than what the power monitor showed.
Also as stated he has been in the house 30 years from when it was built and his meter reading is 77725 which gives an average yearly reading of 2590, assuming that the meter started off at zero. Yet in the past 205 days he has used 4150 KW.
Also he has no immersion, water heated by gas, no electric fire, does not even have one in the house and I searched for it :-)again heating by gas, fridge freezer that has been checked by power meter and the night he used 8 units of electricity he switched everything off including sky box, video etc, and it was not cold enough to have his GAS central heating left on all night. So where did the 8 KW of electricity come from? Conclusion electric meter must be at fault but try persuading EDF about that.
Did you know that when you switch everything off at the consumer unit it can take a few minutes for your electric meter to slow down? I did not know that but that is what my friend was told by the person he was speaking to at EDF.
SHEESH!!!!! or whatever any quick and easy way to check what user my son has left the computer in as I keep finding that sometimes when I post I am 2 different people/
Jackie
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On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:05:24 GMT someone who may be "Jackie"

The person at EDF was talking round objects. There is negligible inertia in a spinning disc meter. If you and your friends have ruled out things like freezers then take it up with the Energywatch.
However, before doing so, do turn off the electricity at the main switch and see what the meter does. Use a torch to see what it is doing.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
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On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:05:24 GMT, Jackie wrote:

Are you sure, it's easy to forget things that you never switch on/off in the nromal course of events. Best to pull all the fuses or trip the MCBs then power just one circuit up and put your test load on that.

If his meter has not been chnaged it is twenty years overdue for routine replacement. ISTR that there is a statutary(?) requirement for electricity meters to be replaced every 10 years. They tend to be replaced by refurbished and recalibrated units so the reading almost certainly wouldn't be zero.

Is EDF the company he pays for power or the company that owns/maintains the wires that feed it to him? It is the latter that needs to be contacted about a possible meter fault.

One word: Bollocks. If the meter doesn't stop when you switch of the main switch it definately *is* faulty.

ctl-alt-del should bring up a dialogue asking what you want to do. I think the current user name is shown there but as I rarely use windows I could be well wrong.
--
Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
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If his meter had not started at zero his average would have been less than 2590 KW
<If his meter has not been changed it is twenty years overdue for routine <replacement. ISTR that there is a statutory(?) requirement for <electricity meters to be replaced every 10 years. They tend to be <replaced by refurbished and recalibrated units so the reading almost <certainly wouldn't be zero.
I have lived in my house from 1991 and my electric meter is the original. Although my gas meter was changed in July 03
<Is EDF the company he pays for power or the company that owns/maintains <the wires that feed it to him? It is the latter that needs to be <contacted about a possible meter fault.
EDF is the company he pays to supply his energy, who knows who is responsible for the wires. It used to be Hydro Electric.

I know it is bollocks I just used that to give you an idea of what he is up against. Did you not notice the SHEESH!!!!
It is definataly his meter that is faulty, his consumption has increased as in the number of killowatts he is using which costs more money "not the fact that the energy prices had increased."
When I moved into this house I took a reading (or was given a reading by the builders, cannot remember) but anyway that reading was 34072 and my present reading is 95822 so I have used 61750 units in 5441 days at an average daily usage of 11.349 so maybe my reading is too high?
When I get my power monitor back from him everything is going to get monitored
So back to my original question
How can he get them to come and check whether his meter is faulty? He lives in Scotland and used to be supplied by Hydro Electric who are now known as Southern Electricity however it is EDF energy to whom he pays his bills?
And who does he complain to if EDF energy don't give him a new meter, or at least check the old one. And should I complain to EDF that I am still using the original meter that was installed when my house was built?
Thanks all Jackie
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Jackie wrote:

Just slam a crowbar through it using insulated gloves and tell then it certainly is faulty now, the neighborhood kids have been giving him hell lately, and can he have a new one please?
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On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:29:58 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Always assuming that the meter is in an external cupboard of some sort.
--
Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
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On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:49:30 GMT, Jackie wrote:
<snip>

Depends (or I should say it depended) on the type of meter. A normal domestic 'quarterly' meter was 20 years. Not 100% certain on two-rate (E7) meters, I think they were also 20 years, but they might just have been 15.
There should be a little sticker on the front of the meter which indicates when it was certified.

The company that *owns* the wires.

Scottish and Southern, head office in Perth. <snip>

I doubt it, and I've had *far* more experience than you in dealing with meter complaints. On average we'd get perhaps 2 or 3 substantiated cases per year, of *all* meter types - including commercial/industrial.
I gave you advice previously how to go about reliably checking to be certain if it is the meter or an installation problem. Is it just that you've made up your mind and it doesn't matter what anybody else says.
<snip>

Then do yourself a favour and first look back through the thread and tackle it logically. Convince yourseelf and your mate that the meter's faulty when perhaps it isn't and S&S will almost certainly charge him when they come to investigate and find that the meter's OK.
Don't piss about with a power monitor. You're wasting your time, and you'll lead yourselves well and truly up the garden path. All you need to do a meter accuracy check is a known load and a decent stop watch.
When you've isolated *every* bit of load from the installation switch on a known load of say 2kw - typically a fire. Remember also that many modern 3 bar fires may not have 1kw elements.
The disc in the meter has a black mark on the edge, specifically for timing. When the marks passes centre front, start the stop watch and run it for, say, 2 minutes, counting the number of revolutions. The meter will be marked with a specimen number of revs per kwh, so use a bit of simple maths and you'll be able to fairly accurately check the accuracy of the meter.

First you stop convincing yourself that it is the meter that's faulty when it appears you haven't carried out the checks that I and others have outlined to you.
You get him to carry out those checks, and actually make a few brief notes of what he's actually done. You mentioned that it was a semi - has he actually checked in the loft? Others have also suggested an immersion heater on 24/7. Is the immersion controlled by a timeswitch? Is that stuck on? There are lots of things to check *before* going to S&S to complain about the meter. If, after carrying out those tests, he can then satisfy himself that it actually is the meter that's at fault, then give S&S a bell and tell them that he has a faulty meter. Making a note of what he's done will strengthen his case to get them to come and check.
Of course, if he ain't prepared to carry out those tests, then tell him to 'phone them straight away, but be prepared for a bill if they find it ain't the meter.

See above.
--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

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Jackie wrote:

My point was that is would be most unusual for someone to have the same meter for 30 years. They are normally changed every 10 - 20 years and re-certified. So the 77,700 units could have been used over a shorter period.

That's absolute rubbish, as David has said. They stop (and speed up) almost instantly - see for yourself using something like a kettle. Watch the meter stop (or slow down) when the kettle clicks off.
--
Andy

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