Electrical Building Regs etc..

[ac1951]

My local Authority have sent me a notification form with the following text, which I have to confess has me totally baffled.

Quote/Extract: Notifiable Electrical Installations. The design, installation, inspection and testing of the electrical installation must be carried out in accordance with BS7671:2001. Before the Council can issue a Completion Certificate the applicant must provide either:

1=2E Where the installer is registered with Part P competent person self- certification scheme, a Building Regulations compliance certificate, within 30 days of the work being completed, or

2=2E Where the installer is not registered with a Part P competent person self-certification scheme but qualified to complete BS7671 installation certificates, a Building Regulation application and an appropriate BS7671 installation certificate, or

3=2E Where the installer is not qualified to complete BS7671 installation certificates, a Building Regulation application.

The only charges shown on the "Building Application form" are: Electrical Installations not covered by Competent Persons Scheme =3D =A3170

So, first of all who can complete a BS7671 installation certificate ?

Second, if I read it correctly the Council has less work to do if option 2 applies as opposed to Option 3 but they charge the same price !!

[TheOldFellow]

Anyone who pays the Competant-Person Tax to a Trade Body. Basically, professional electricians, who can't avoid the Tax.

They are not allowed by law to change more for option 3. The Blessed and Holy Saint John (Prescott), patron saint of Electricians, wrote it so. It was the only bit he got right.

R.

[Robin]

Count yourself lucky they are willing to offer option 3. My LA is one of what I gather are the very many who impose the BR charge *and* then require you also to pay for a certificate from a 3rd party. They simply will not sign off any Part P work without one. And, in the absence of direct application of John Prescotts's clunking fist, it is not easy and inexpensive to force them to change their ways.

[Andy Hall]

Have you discussed it with your MP?

The faceless grey bureaucrats of the town hall are akin to woodlice. Lift the rock which hides them and they scurry around trying to avoid the glare of daylight. One of them has decided to do this thinking that he can get away with it. That should be addressed.

If your MP is from the government benches, it should be pointed out to him that the LA is operating in contravention of the government policy on the subject.

If he's a member of the opposition party then he should have an interest in anything involving unnecessary regulation and particular incorrect charging in relation to enforcing it.

In either case, ask him to write to the minister concerned and ask for a copy of the reply. Then send that to the chief exec of the LA.

[Owain]

A person or persons qualified to certify the design, installation, and inspection and test of the installation, typically with the relevant City & Guilds qualifications.

Owain

[John Rumm]

I wonder what the response would be if one simply completed the certification themselves and submitted it. One could argue that C&G qualifications are not the only test of competence. (and experiance would suggest they are certainly no guarantee of it!)

[ac1951]

OK, I'm an apprentice serverd electrician with C&G qualifications and an HNC/HND in Electrical engineering and spent 15 yrs in the trade, but for the last 20yrs I have trained and work on Computer Infrastructure (Networks and Hardware {servers, desktops etc}

Enough of blowing my own trumpet ...... I don't understand what I'm missing (other than brushing up on the latest regulations) that prevents me from making changes to the electrical installation at an house I have bought to re-furbish and either sell-on or rent out..

Q. Can I declare myself as competent to sign off a BS7671 installation certificate.

Q. What would I have to do to become Part P approved

.

[John Rumm]

Don't know...

(I would be happy to an argue the toss ;-)

Pay for membership of one of the part P approved fan clubs and meet whatever entry requirements they have.

[Frank Erskine]

Indeed. I've just had a kitchen refit and the electrics were done by a NICEIC-type installer. I didn't complain or comment at the time (because he must know best!), but he joined two bits of a ring circuit with a junction box which he tucked into the ceiling void (subsequently skimmed by a plasterer), and he laid a 6mm T&E straight down the middle of a wall some 3' wide (with no sockets etc as indications of said cable), with no capping or conduit - just laid under the plaster over the blockwork.

From a 'technical' sort of point of view I'm quite happy with his work. The said junction box 'could' be accessed from above, but have you seen the state of my radio shack above the kitchen? :-)

[Ed Sirett]

As with all paper work it's about "bluffing the bumph". By the book I expect that a proof of competence would be having the C&G Inspect & Test qual. Similarly you will need to fill in some test results, by the book you test gear is meant to be calibrated and certified as so.

[Ed Sirett]

Which will usually be...

have insurance (hundreds a year) have calibrated test gear (hundreds) and say £100/yr thereafter. pay the club subscription (hundreds) have a suitable qualification (hundreds) / 5yr.

[Ben Blaukopf]

My BCO is perfectly happy for me to do it.

[Andy Hall]

Un-tandy is it?

[<me9]

Only after spending dosh on 'calibrated' test equipment. I'd rather go by my megger (which I ( and prolly you) can easily calibrate against known resistances) and was constricted around 1928) than rely on a calibration cert from a ISO whatever company.

As above, but also give loads of dosh (known elsewhere as a bribe) to one of the 'approved'[2] organisations.

[2] Is that approved, as in the old style approved schools?

[Frank Erskine]

Un-Realistic.

[Andrew Gabriel]

You can hire calibrated test gear. I've done this in the past.

[John Rumm]

Would be Such-Archer palaver.

[ac1951]

I now see why you're so knowledgable John ......... Your post was recorded at 02:56 .... Do you ever sleep :-)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Shame the electricians did' frame a regulation limiting the framing of regulations to persons who have some relevant qualification, and have passed the relevant tests.

Gosh, Have I struck on somethng?

All MP's to tke a course in practical governance, and those disqualified must stand down? Ministers to have an IQ test and be disallowed from cabinet office if their IQ is less than 70?

[ac1951]

Back on topic though:.......

Are these standard forms and if so where do you get them from : "BS7671 installation certificates" "Building Regulations compliance certificate"

Andy