EDF don't make sense

[Gefreiter Krueger]

Then you're like me. Not stupid enough to get ripped off.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 08:22:19 on Sun, 3 Nov 2013, Gefreiter Krueger remarked:

I'm a bit more cautious than average, as I have a professional interest in scams and frauds on the Internet (as an investigator, not a perpetrator!) Many of the ways that people can become victims are nothing to do with stupidity, if they were it would be so much easier to prevent.

[Gefreiter Krueger]

Oh I don't know. I avoid doing a lot of things that could end up getting me frauded. And most people are stupid.

[John Rumm]

It can be a very good (and required) idea in business to make the cash flow work. The same can be true for individuals.

A somewhat narrow field of view...

Charge cards are particularly useful for business purchases. I can buy things for my employer, and not have to pay for them personally. At the end of the month they can pay for them directly.

If you do it right, its method of not worrying at all.

[Gefreiter Krueger]

Asking for trouble. Spending what you haven't got yet.

Then you should have their debit card. I used to do that with my debit card, I simply claimed for them immediately if it was a large amount.

Easier to just spend the money you already have, then all you need to do is glance at the balance every so often.

[John Rumm]

Amex used to claim the "no fixed spending limit" as one of their USPs. Most charge cards are basically indistinguishable (at least from the merchant's point of view) from a CC used in the way you describe though.

So they do all the normal visa/mastercard stuff, and have joint and mutual liability in any transaction.

At least a minimum payment DD will avoid late payment fees though.

[John Rumm]

He does not understand budgeting remember ;-)

[John Rumm]

That's not really "in arrears" then is it? You would expect them to DD the exact amount owed at the end of the month such that you start the next month with a balance of zero.

[John Rumm]

Yup, can well believe that...

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 15:33:28 on Wed, 6 Nov 2013, Gefreiter Krueger remarked:

There's not a concept (as far as I'm aware) of a company debit card with a "limit". Companies are therefore reluctant to expose themselves to giving employees a potentially multi-million blank cheque to carry around. So they arrange for a debit card which has a sensible limit (eg perhaps £5k) like a credit card would, that allows to employee to buy things that they need in any one month, but not to completely empty the bank account.

Amex has built an entire empire upon this concept, so don't knock it!

ps The Amex catchphrase used to be "no *preset* spending limit", so there was a limit, but they set it after you had the card and your usage pattern was established. A very clever bit of smoke and mirrors.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at

15:37:41 on Wed, 6 Nov 2013, John Rumm remarked:

Later changed to "no preset spending limit".

However, like an "indefinite" US Visa (which means "we don't yet know when we'll cancel it", rather than "for ever") all that "no fixed limit" means is "we'll alter the limit up and down depending on your spending pattern".

[Gefreiter Krueger]

I can't be bothered with it.

[Gefreiter Krueger]

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 15:44:56 -0000, Roland Perry wr= ote:

,

it card, I simply claimed for them immediately if it was a large amount.=

Why on earth not? All the company has to do is have a seperate current = account with a small amount in it.

Or do what my last place of work did, they got a credit card with a limi= t they liked, and paid it off fully at the end of each month.

Nobody accepts them. They ought to curl up and die.

Scientists recently conducted a marijuana taste test. Nobody seems to be able to remember the results.

[John Rumm]

You don't know much about business do you...

Incomes are frequently generated at the completion and delivery of products or services to customers. These don't usually happen on nice monthly schedules. Now you could say to your staff and suppliers: "I am not going to pay you for the next four months, but don't worry, the money is coming, you won't loose out", however there is a chance they may be less than pleased with that idea. Hence many businesses use short term borrowing to allow normal activity to continue during the parts of the year where the companies money is occupied generating income as work in progress.

So long as its properly budgeted and accounted for, its far from "asking for trouble". In most cases, its the lack of available credit that is asking for trouble.

No, because debit cards don't have joint and several liability. Using debit cards for online or "card holder not present" transactions is inherently more risky. They also result is one transaction on your account for every spending event on the card. Keep in mind that business pay "per transaction" fees on their accounts. So a monthly credit / charge card reduces many transactions into one on the account.

A further advantage for small businesses is that they often allow time to invoice a client such that you keep cash flow positive.

I used to do that with my debit

Now you are getting it...

And they way you know what money you already have is?

Well done, a budget.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 16:15:50 on Wed, 6 Nov 2013, Gefreiter Krueger remarked:

One each for every employee? What the charge card companies are offering is the equivalent of that, outsourced without all the admin issues.

There used to be some issues, tax perhaps, (not sure if they've been resolved) about issuing credit cards to employees that are paid off by the employer.

Oh, so you are knocking a very successful business model. You'd presumably be surprised how many places you'd be wanting to charge business expenses do in fact accept them.

[John Rumm]

Some of the less common UK banks now do this kind of thing - Citybank are certainly one. Its the way Samsung hand out their "cash back" rewards. They send you a debit card with a fixed and one time only limit on it. The issue multiple chards liked to one account setup for the purpose.

Quite a nifty ruse from their point of view since it means they only pay out the cash back in cases where it is actually used, and its also difficult for the recipient to actually spend all of it.

Indeed. Although perhaps it offers more flexibility than the corporate CCs that usually need a personal guarantee in place from the directors for the full credit limit.

[Gefreiter Krueger]

And something goes wrong and the customer doesn't pay up. Oops.

I've never had a problem. Banks are usually quite helpful.

What? That happens with anything.

Huh?

No, what's in my current account.

[Gefreiter Krueger]

Why a seperate one for each employee?

Like what? The employer is simply carrying out the transaction for them, and has nothing to do with any tax.

I prefer things that are accepted everywhere. That's Mastercard and Visa (credit or debit cards).

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 17:07:52 on Wed, 6 Nov 2013, Gefreiter Krueger remarked:

Otherwise a company with 1,000 employees each of whom might have £2k a month expenses has to deposit £2m, all of which any one of the employees can access.

"Expense accounts" have been a dirty word in tax circles for at least the last 4 years.

[Gefreiter Krueger]

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:02:17 -0000, Roland Perry wr= ote:

,

rent account with a small amount in it.

If the charge card company can do it, then why not current accounts?

limit they liked, and paid it off fully at the end of each month.

hem, and has nothing to do with any tax.

Not that I know or care much about tax, but I don't see the problem.

-- =

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.