I know I am always banging on about the condensation issue I have. I have tried many things but I came across this "Drimaster" thing by accident .
Can someone explain in simpletons terms a) what it is b) how it works ( seen dozens of diagrams about air flow and understoond nothing) c) is it expensive to fit? d)how is it fitted? e) does it work?
We had been considering cavity wall insulation but this time of year the kitchen external wall ( North) is virtually streaming with water. Dehumidifier helps but it isn't a real solution.
Thanks.
(we have a detached bungalow in the Tamar Valley and its very wet here. No gas mains and all electric)
Which seems to be a NZ based company and all it seems to do is provide ventilation.
Warm air can support more moisture in the air than can cold. Warm moist air hits a colder surface and the moisture condenses out on the surface. Thee fix is to increase the surface temperature (warmth and insulation) and /or reduce the amount of moisture in the warm air - extract the moist air, cure the source of the moisture and /or dehumify.
To prevent moisture in the atmosphere - don't dry clothes in the house without some special arrangement to remove the moisture. Use a cooker hood which extracts moisture to the outside, always fit lids on pans when simmering food - it saves fuel and moisture in the air. Fit an extract fan in the bathroom and make sure it always runs when the bath or shower are used.
We dry clothes in a small utility room, which has a flat roof and just double brick walls (no cavity) using washing lines, a fan and a dehumidifier - rather than using the drier. Even the heaviest items dry overnight and we never get any moisture appearing on the walls.
This house used to be cold and suffer damp. Central heating, good insulation, good double glazing and extractor fans in appropriate places now mean it is as dry as a bone, never cold and heating bills are low.
Even more reason to sort out some proper insulation.
Thanks but everything else is insulated. Just finished new widows and doors ( cos I was told this might sort the problem) Roof insulation done The cavity walls were left because of the condensation issues. In fact probably the condensation is a result of being over insulated.
In fact things might be worse now than before vis condensation - and it is condensation. I have had this confirmed by a surveyor.
Short of dying I cant see any other ways we can now reduce the moisture in the air as it seems its just a product of being alive.
The dri master thing is being sold here locally by a firm in Devon ( not NZ - although it may be an NZ import) as a permanent solution to condensation.
Same way as any fan, except instead of extracting air it blows cold air in from the attic.
In a bungalow it shouldn't be that expensive, it only involves cutting a hole in the ceiling, screwing the small motor to the roof (to reduce the noise it makes) and wiring it up. In a house it may be more involved if you want to bring the tube down to the ground floor.
As above
No better than any other small fan. It won't compensate for drying clothes inside for example. They do have some quite good guidance on avoiding condensation at
formatting link
that and you probably won't need their expensive fan.
They lied. Fitting new windows and doors will have exacerbated the problem as they would reduce natural ventilation in the bungalow.
Cavity wall insulation would have been the one thing which helped and would have been more effective than new windows.
No, it is a result of under heating and under ventilation.
Of course, what little ventilation you had has been reduced by the new doors and windows.
It's a product of inadequate ventilation and inadequate heating. As long as you have both of these you will have condensation. It is very simple to cure.
Unless you change your lifestyle it won't achieve anything. If you change your lifestyle you won't need it.
Except I wastold I would be better not having Cavity wall insulation ( this was the energy grants thing) because of the condensation.
It may well be under heating . I have an eco warrieor OH ( as I have said before). He follows the government advice to the letter ( turn down heating etc) - and what we have is a effectively a mess. When I used to have the heating on in winter we didnt have condensation like now.
Then OH retired and we had a recession and everyone was supposed to be " poor and .... we got advice to turn down for " green reasons" and now I have a problem.
What needs sorting out is the governemtn advice to be frank ( because t**** like my OH take them too seriously) Rant over
With respectyou dont know my lifestyle to make that comment. I have done absolutely everything to minimise condensation. I do not dry indoors if I can help it ( I run the washing machine and a condensing intergral dryer once a week. I hardley ever cook except on Sunday lunch times.
I dont use water , boil a kettle or anything else very often ( conscious of how it affects the kitchen)
The kitchen is cold. It is not heated. There is no heat source there. There is a dehumidifier because I put it there.
But clearly the dri master wont do much more than the dehumidifier does now
I know heat cures it. But I am not allowed to have heat on.
The Drimaster appears to quote its cost of running as its own electricity consumption. But completely ignores that you will be blowing COLD air from outside. So, to keep even your current interior temperature, you will have to be heating that incoming air.
Their Irish site is odd. Says the units use between 4.6 and 8 watts per day. (Obviously not understanding measurement of electricity very well.)
That is simply wrong advice. Lack of insulation makes for colder surfaces, colder surfaces is where it will condense. Warmth and good insulation will help, but you also need to keep the interior airs moisture level down to acceptable levels, by ventilating sources of moisture as close to the sources as possible.
People do exhale some moisture, but by far the worse sources are washing, cooking and bathing.
No he doesn't, I doubt if either of you even know where to find it.
The Energy Saving Trust advice is "Your room thermostat should be set to the lowest comfortable temperature - typically between 18°C and
21°C. "
They also say :-
"5.4 Under-heating When a home is not properly heated, the internal surface temperatures of the external walls and roof can be very low, particularly if the building is not adequately insulated. When the warm moist air circulating within the property comes into contacts with the cold surfaces, it is chilled and less able to carry moisture. This results in surface condensation.
The problem of under-heating is often exacerbated by poor ventilation. Moisture is put into the air inside the home by the residents? cooking and bathing, drying clothes and simply just breathing. This moisture can be readily removed from the air (ie by extract fans in kitchens and bathrooms or flues on heating appliances); if it is not, then the risk of surface condensation is increased."
You might want to try to read the following Energy Saving Trust documents :-
formatting link
(page 7 onwards)
Precisely. Now you know the solution.
You were not told to turn off the heating nor were you told to keep it at such a level that condensation was inevitable.
Don't blame the government for you and your partners inability to read. The World Health Organization's standard for warmth says 18C is suitable for healthy people who are appropriately dressed. For those with respiratory problems or allergies, they recommend a minimum of
16C and for the sick, disabled, very old or very young, a minimum of
20C .
No, what needs to be sorted out is you and your idiot partner. Where does this "government advice" tell you to turn of the heating completely or keep it at levels where condensation occurs?
You have explained it in tedious detail over some years and steadfastly refused to accept all advice on solving the problem.
No you haven't.
condensing intergral dryer
Condensing combined washer dryers put litres of water per load into the room they are in.
You don't shower or bathe?
Try heating it.
It will do considerably less, it is only a small fan and relies upon the rooms below being maintained at an adequate temperature.
So live with your soggy partner and wet walls and stop winging. There isn't another solution which will work.
However, if you look closer, what it actually does is
So, all it can do is decide whether, or at what speed, to operate. The occasions during the heating season when the loft is warmer than you want the house to be are likely to be few.
Thanks for the advice but I have done all of that and I still get condensation. I cant have wall insulation now as grants have been stopped - so that is that as they say.
I cook once a week ( around an hour. I use a microwave or toaster the rest of the time - and that is that. I am not in during the day Mon - Friday. I wash once a week . I never dry clothes indoors.
The bathroiom does not suffer from condensation. Its only the kitchen - and only the one wall.
The advice of Cornwall Country Council was to keep all the windows open permanently. It seems a lot of people have condensation and mould down here.
Then you think worongly. I went to the energy saving trust. They told me I should not have cavity wall insulation. They said a lot of things.
I also did their web site " energy test" and despite their 21 degrees arguement , the calculations would place us well above any eco values if we followed them. So much for their " knowledge.
After having spoken to an advisor of theirs on the phone, I lost all faith in anything they say. he knew less than I did.
We have poor ( in fact NO ventilation since we bubble wrappedthe house to " save energy costs" . I acknowledge that.) The extractor fan in the kitchen does nothing . It would have to be on all the time ( like the dehumidifier. )
It does seem to ease up when its warmer outside or when its dry. The rain doesnt help at all - and its barely stoped raining for the last three years.
( dont think I am stupid because I ask a lot of questions. I am just lacking in an decent education)
The fact is, I suspect,like many things these quangos wereset up with half baked ideas. People like my OH and his predecessor her, took them up. Then the problems started and then they revised their ideas at the quango, but the problem remains .
They are stuck now with just one thing " dont breathe". I know DIYers will not believe that but it is the reality here.
Yeah, I know what they say. I spoke to them. They are less knowledgeable than I am if you get their " advisors" They just read off a set text.
I changed my lifestyle and the " breathing" bit is the only bit of all of that left that is done in this house. Its their stock answer and its just plain wrong - self evidently since I cannot deal with the problem.
It is condensation and it only on the one wall. Taking the pantry down has helped but not cured this. Instead of water dripping down all the walls of the pantry, its now just the outide wall on the end.
When I find the solution, I will have to let you know. Until then, thanks for the advice. I do value it. It gives me ideas as to what else and which direction I need to move next in persuit of sorting this.
They told my other half about a heat recovery unit ( we think it was them - he isnt sure!). But it would only work on gas or oil systems as it is attached somewhere in the heating system and you have to have a wet system for that.. We dont have either.
You've been told the solution many times. You need to increase the ventilation and increase heat usage to maintain relative hunidity indoors at a low level, which will reduce the dew point on the exterior walls. This will cure your condensation problems.
It's a problem I've seen many times in student (and pensioners') accommodation where they close all the ventilation off and turn heat down to save money. Open even a small window a crack or install some permanent vents, such as an airbrick in the worst affected rooms, and turn the heat up a touch, and the problem goes away as if by magic. I did it once in a *very* stuffy 19th Century house in Shepherds Bush by removing the blanking plate at the back of a hearth. The effect was immediate, and noticed by the clients within seconds.
There are lots of possibilities for heat recovery, depending upon what you are willing to invest. These start at units suitable for a single room, and are basically air to air heat exchangers where the outgoing warm air heats the incoming cold air.
Whole house units are naturally more complicated, but in a bungalow at least you have relatively easy access to both bathroom and kitchen.
What you have part described sounds more like some form of heat pump, a very different thing.
Why did they say you should not have cavity wall insulation? What other things did they say?
What is an "eco value"?
So where do you think all the moisture generated within the house is going to go? Stopping ventilation does not reduce energy costs.
It really is very simple. You have two choices, both of which will eliminate the condensation problem quickly and reliably.
The first is to turn off the heating completely and to leave all the windows open permanently. If you can reduce the inside temperature of the house to be the same as outside you will get no condensation.
The second is to improve ventilation and raise heating levels.
Nothing else will work. It really is that simple.
The amount of condensation in the bungalow depends upon three factors:
how much water vapour is produced by the actions of its residents
how cold or warm the bungalow is.
How much ventilation there is.
You have reduced the first but have either done nothing about the other two or made things worse such as by fitting double glazing.
As you are repeatedly told, all three factors must be addressed, not just one.
It is not asking questions but a refusal to listen to answers which is a better indication of intelligence.
Not where it mattered you didn't.
cannot deal with the problem.
You cannot deal with the problem because you steadfastly refuse to do what is necessary to solve it. As long as you continue to do that the problem will continue.
You have been told the solution many times by many people but refuse to listen. As long as you continue to refuse to listen and refuse to take the simple steps necessary to solve the problem it will remain and you will have to live with it.
These peoplerang up afterwehadcalled the energy saving trust. I guesswe were passed on. They offered all sorts of things on the new " green deal" but assumed we had gas or oil - when OH said we didnt, they said they couldnt help.
They asked him what we had been looking for. He said wall insulation. They dont do that. Apparently the green deal operates through private companies ( if what I got the drift of was right) and you can have all sorts( by a loan) but only if they have an installer in your area doing it.
Clearly we dont have one for wall insulation. In short its a rip off.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.