Double Glazing trickle vents - try-on?

[Luke]

Hi,

My house is in the process of having new upvc double-glazing fitted. On inspection, I noticed that the trickle vents I had paid extra for, and were agreed at the point of specifying the windows, had not been fitted.

When ordering the windows I was told by Bloke A at the window firm that if my existing windows had trickle vents fitted, then my new windows must also have the vents fitted according to building regs.

I immediately phoned the DG company and spoke to Bloke B. After talking to Bloke A, he admitted that yes, I had ordered the trickle vents and no, they hadn't been fitted. Bloke B then told me that I am better off without trickle vents, as they compromise the integrity of the window, are draughty, and encourage dirt, insects etc into the house. He said quite often customers complain if trickle vents have been fitted and he has to seal them up afterwards!

Therefore his advice is to leave the vents unfitted and he will knock =A354 off the final bill.

So, what do you reckon? Am I better off with or without the trickle vents? Regardless of the group's general opinion, I am quite annoyed that I would have paid =A354 extra for the vents when they weren't even fitted. Bloke B even said it was good news as I'd have an extra =A354 to spend at Christmas!

Luke

[dom]

Whilst some people don't like trickle vents, they are a building regs requirement.

I would phone the company again and mention that you've spoken to the building inspector.

[dom]

they are *probably* a building regs requirement

- unless your rooms have some other form of fixed ventilation.

[PeterC]

As others have said, they are required by BR. However, Mr.B offered you a fraction of the cost of correcting the mistake - that's why he was so disparaging of the vents. He'd have to correct the installation and be left with useless parts, so there's room for negotiation.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I thought they were mandatory now.

Some years ago I bought a stock size unit from Screwfix, and the trickle vents were in a sort of add on bar. Recently wanted a second identical window and that had them built in.

In both cases they can be closed if needed via a lever.

[mogga]

But "closed" isn't really closed - when they bang on about insulation and U factors of glass, seals and surrounds it then seems insane to have bloody great holes through the windows with a bit of a plastic cover.

[The Medway Handyman]

Worth a call to FENSA to check? Or threaten the supplier with a call to FENSA?

[Luke]

That's pretty much my dilemma. As the DG firm will give me the Fensa certificate on completion of the installation, I'm not too worried about the buildings regs aspect - far more important to me is the comfort and warmth of the house. However my worry was that the DG firm have realised their mistake and are trying to worm out of it by saying the trickle vents are a bad idea anyway and I'm better off without them.

FYI The impression I get of the firm is quite favourable. They're a small local company, basically two brothers, been in business 20 years, and seemed very straightforward and honest to do business with. No high pressure sales tactics and a simple quote process. I don't want to get their backs up and make a fuss over something relatively minor.

Luke

[Steve Walker]

I would say to him that being without them could cause problems in future, eg BR, and I would prefer to have them installed as contracted please. If they really don't want to do that (and they won't, of course) then I would accept a reduction of £500 to offset my time and trouble if/when it's later necessary to have them retro-fitted.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If your house is so well sealed they make a difference - that's why they're needed. If not, it doesn't matter. ;-)

[Andrew Gabriel]

When I had mine done (admittedly nearly 8 years ago), they were only a requirement if the window had no opener, or if the opening section could not be locked securely in a fractionally open position. Otherwise the window met ventilation requirements without having trickle vents added.

[Tim W]

[e-mail] wibbled on Saturday 05 December 2009 09:03

I didn't bother specifying trickle vents for the window I've just ordered.

Never been totally sure why there is an obsession with them. Room in question has a chimney vent which will allow some air and the house has tones of fixed ventilation and plenty of leaky doors.

If that's not enough, the top transoms can be safely locked an inch open anyway[1], which is a good as a trickle vent which may be closed (at least on the last window I got where I didn't think not to specify them).

[1] This is more visible to check anyway.

[mogga]

The only thing when you come to sell your house that will matter is the fensa certificate. People don't not buy a house because it has vents. They just grumble about how cold it is because of them or don't even notice... (I'd like those air exchange heat whatsit things instead but I've not persuaded him indoors that it's a viable option)

You could make enquiries with another firm about the cost of actually installing vents in windows - and get a better guage of how much it'd cost this company to comply.

If you really want vents ask them to put them in. If you don't then don't.

[Tim W]

[e-mail] wibbled on Saturday 05 December 2009 09:02

Well, to be precise, this is an excerpt from Part F

"3.4 To comply with Requirement F1, unless the room is ventilated adequately by other installed ventilation provisions, all replacement windows should include trickle ventilators, preferably with accessible controls as described in Table 1.5.

3.5 Alternatively, an equivalent background ventilation opening should be provided in the same room. A window with a night latch position is not normally recommended as an alternative because of the difficulty of measuring the equivalent area, the greater likelihood of draughts, and the potential increased security risk in some locations. Nevertheless a window with a night latch may be appropriate in exceptional situations where a trickle ventilator is an unsuitable solution. For example, where security considerations allow, for types of window that cannot reasonably accommodate trickle ventilators (e.g. some types of vertical sliding sash or very small windows)."

Although, having read that, I feel tempted to amend my order to avoid arguments...

But it seems that the main requirement is "adequate ventilation for the room, *ideally provided by trickle vents*"

[Dave Liquorice]

That's what I would accept (assuming the =A354 is the cost of the vents). You are getting the bit of paper from FENSA anyway.

If anyone checks up on the trickle vents in relation to when the windows where installed when there is the FENSA certificate for the installation I really wouldn't want to deal with them. They'll start picking on any tiny arse covering thing in a survey to knock the price down. Not worth the effort.

[F]

Take the money, ignore the vents and retain full control of ventilation in the house.

Sounds like a very well regarded firm I use just to the north of Leeds?

[Dave Liquorice]

I think the regs have changed and trickle vents have to be fitted. Right PITA here as the bloody things will no doubt leak like a sieve when there is a gale outside driving the 10mm+/hour rain against them.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I would not fit them.

They are a ghastly compromise designed to meet building regs on background ventilation. Largely as a result of massive condensation problems from the 60s with uninsulated concrete walled flats and tight fitting windows.

If the BCO complains, punch a hole in a wall and fit a vent to that.

Trickle vents are an easy way to retrofit windows and ventilation together. But not the way to do it from square one.

[The Natural Philosopher]

NO THEY ARE NOT.

They are simply ONE WAY to meet the requirements for secure background ventilation.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Lockable at a crack windows were not considered adequately secure for the ground floor by my BCO.