Doorway in supporting wall?

There are a few questions first:

there is no problem knocking a doorway through, providing a proper lintel is used above. There may be a problem WRT fireproofing the utility/kitchen area from the garage, studding may require two thicknesses of 30min fireboard on each side and also a firedoor from the utility into the kitchen, depending on the price of fireboard, it may be cheaper to do it in blocks.

Matthew, before you start talking to builders about prices or about what materials to use, it's important to find out if you need Planning Permission and whether there might be any problems with that. You will also certainly need Building Regulations approval, and to do that you'll need to get plans drawn up. You can discuss the project with builders and get two or three lined up ready, but if you get prices from them before the work has been properly designed, each builder will quote for something different and you won't know which one to choose. Also, if they quoted you before you get Building Regulations it is absolutely certain they will find something they'll claim they didn't include for and charge you extra.

You'll find lots of helpful leaflets at the Planning Desk at your council offices.

To give you some idea of cost before you step off, as a rule of thumb you can work out the rough cost of the extension by calculating the plan area (outside measurements) in square feet and multiplying by £100 (might be a bit cheaper where you are). Then add VAT. Forming the new door opening is not a major job as long as there's a bit of solid wall each side to support the ends of the new lintel. Allow about £800 + VAT for a simple job.

Peter

Yes thats the intended plan.

The front wall of the house

Yes I did wonder about fireproofing which is why I thought cement was better...

Hi Peter,

I wasnt sure about planning permission will find out if its necessary. A builder is coming to have a look for us tonight so I can quiz him on that aspect. Useful figures thanks. My main concern was that if a hole was knocked in the wall for a door the wall would collapse!

Matthew

Take a 'look' at your wall . Each brick is supporting the one above it.... [A bond should ensure that one brick is supporting the two above it ... but never mind]. If you remove a door size clump of bricks then the bricks above the opening 'would collapse' UNLESS they're supported. That's why people have said ; 'Install a lintel'. In this case a lintel is a beam extending wider than the aperture for the door onto which the bricks _above_ are given support ... the lintel transfers the load onto the bricks either side of the door opening. it's not exactly rocket science - but you'll need a structural engineer to guarantee that the lintel is specified correctly for the loads and that there's a sufficient load-resistant path to the foundations. The builders will need to support the weight of the wall _while_ the opening is made and until the lintels are installed to absorb the weight.

Some builders will tell you that you don't need planning (or even building regs) when in fact you do. The usual practice is to support the wall above with big jacks while the doorway is knocked out although some people don't bother.

Sorry for the confusion. I wasnt very clear in my mail. I understand the need for a lintel etc.

My issue is how do they knock a hole whilst trying to support the wall? Surely for a period of time just before the lintel goes in the wall is unsupported....

Matthew

In fact you often do *not* need planning permission for a garage conversion. it depends upon your permitted development rights and whether you have already used them.

MBQ

They put in "needles" which are horizontal beams through the wall above where the hole is to be made, and support them on "acros", which are steel props that can be raised on lowered. They can then fit the lintel and remove the bricks below. After this is done, the props and needles can be removed. Simon.

Glad I did my own two doorways into the extension !!! - couple of holes, acroprops, peppered the door and lintel shape with 8mm holes and got to it with the SDS on rotostop. bobs yer uncle!! as long as you make sure the lintels have at least

Glad I did my own two doorways into the extension !!! - couple of holes, acroprops, peppered the door and lintel shape with 8mm holes and got to it with the SDS on rotostop. bobs yer uncle!! as long as you make sure the lintels have at least

Did you fit a new door and frame, make good the floor, plaster the reveals, do all the decorating, fit the ironmongery. The £800 included all that

Often you don't need to put in needles. You can use the Strongboy type of Acrows which have a steel plate that goes into a brick joint.

yes did all of the above, fitting the doors were a doddle, used a door casement set ready rebated for the door, just fit it square and level n' hang the door!! good old electric plane! 22mm flat bit and decent stanley chisel for fitting the ironmongery job done :-) had practice with hanging doors when I replaced 9 through the house some years ago

Hi All,

The builder turned up last night to give us a quote for the utility room. He said the job would take about 2-3 weeks be built out of two cement block walls (4m x 2m) in the corner of the garage. A doorway and lintel would be put in the back kitchen wall. A concrete raft added to the garage floor to bring it level with the kitchen floor (approx 6"). Cost would be about =A33K to =A33.5K. This is our first quote Ill probably get another two for comparison. Having no idea really of the cost of a job like this, does it sound reasonable?

Thanks, Matthew

Whatever you do, write up a contract with a service level agreement. Write everything down than needs doing and penalise for delays. Builders' "2-3 weeks" often turn into 2-3 months with actual work being

Sounds a lot to me but then most building work always does.

PS I think you mean concrete not cement.

Yes sorry I meant concrete!

I thought it was expensive. However if it is 2 weeks work then that would be say =A3200 a day plus

Would the quote get more reasoanble the longer they tell you it'll take to do? Personally I don't understand why it should take any more than a week. ...of actual work, whether that's spread over 2-3 weeks or not.

If you draw up a detailed list of what needs doing then it's easier to associate the amount of time needed.

.=2E.but it's supply and demand. If you want it you have to pay for it or do it yourself.

No, it's bordering on being extortionate. The walls can easily be built in one day by one man, even if he's labouring on himself..he's only putting up 6m of block walls, lets say 2.5m high, meaning it's 15m2...that'll be 150 blocks @ 80p per block = £120 for blocks, say £30 for sand/cement, a roll of DPC and some screw-in ties = £150

Floor is 1m3 of concrete @ £120 per m3, + visqueen = £130

Lintel is about £60, plus sand/cement, bits and peices = £180

Plaster and lights/electricals, door frame and door = £300

Grand total is about £760 and this is top prices..even if you call it a grand, he's still charging you 2.5k for labour, there is less than a week's work for two men: Day one: knock out doorway and insert lintel and make good brickwork, take delivery of blocks and everything else and get them round to work area. Day two: Build block wall and get floor ready for concrete (one man), other man gets cables in place for sockets, puts in boxes for lights etc Day three: lay concrete floor (two hours work) go home before dinnertime. Day four: dryline and skim walls, ceiling will probably not need anything doing assuming ceiling already in garage Day five : second fix electricals, clean site, affix door and frame, do any small bits and pieces, home before dinner (again)

He's charging you over £400 per day per man.

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the info. The breakdown of cost is very useful... I thought it was expensive and would at the most be about 7 days work. The problem is I suppose finding a builder in the local area that isnt charging a fortune!

Do you know any good builders in the Reading area?

Matt

Unfortunately no...you could try asking work colleagues if they know anyone relaible and reasonably priced...'word of mouth' accounts for about 70% of my work.