So I went out and bought the cheapest 9" grinder I could find, a Clarke
one from Machine Mart.
Used it for the first time today.
It cut, or, not really cut, scored, around half inch deep, 15 slabs.
Then it stopped.
And wouldnt restart.
It is going back when I go past there - any idea if they are OK with
returns? I've got the receipt and whatever it came with, but no box.
I wouldnt mind if I was ramming it into the slabs, but I wasnt, I was
very lightly running it along, doing multiple runs to cut down. maybe
that was the problem, the motor running 'too' long.
Anyway, Screwfix will be getting a visit soon to get the Dewalt one on
offer at £70.
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
On 2007-07-12 17:36:46 +0100, alan@darkroom.+.com (A.Lee) said:
What a surprise.
Doesn't matter. The thing isn't fit for purpose. This equates to a
total refund plus some compensation for the cost of doing the return.
On a £35 transaction, something like £5 in cash or vouchers would be
That would be a much better proposition. There is a wide range of
choice in quality 230mm angle grinders in the £70-80 bracket.
No, I've just been out to the van, and it stinks of burnt electrics from
It was doing quite well before it stopped, it vibrated a lot at first,
but after 3 or 4 slabs it seemed to smooth out a lot, and was doing OK.
Even by cheap tool standards, this one is pretty shit - I was taking it
easy with it, no cutting so hard that it was slowing the motor down.
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
Got a feeling that was Ferm rather than a Clarke, but same principle....
Angle grinders can get quite hot mind you - especially when you fill
them with masonry dust, so if you have not got one with a motor rated
for continuous running then you probably don't want to be cutting for
more than 10 mins at a time without a rest to let it cool.
So it's back to the crappy motors issue then isn't it.....
The poor mechanical performance of cheap routers in terms of results
out vs. electric power in is well known - e.g. the 2000W models that
deliver substantally less than a 1600W quality product.
All of that lost energy has to go somewhere. I'm surprised that the
suppliers haven't claimed that the products keep the user's hands warm
I would say that a 230mm that can't deliver continuous operation or
close to it isn't fit for purpose.
One might buy a 115-125mm model to do small work that likely is in
short bursts, but a 230mm one is pretty much going to be destined for
heavy work like paving and the like and implicit in that is longer
periods of running.
probably not, I think Ferm are manufactured in Holland,
Well either that, or cooling arrangements, or probably (in this case) a
defective grinder in the first place.
The mechanical output of even decent tools will often be a little over
half the electrical input power, so a 2kW grinder will probably need to
dissipate at about 1kW in order to keep cool. That is quite a rate of loss.
DeWalt usually publish both figures for their tools which makes for
interesting reading sometimes:
It could at least make the tea!
Much depends on the nature of the work. Cutting most masonry items will
usually by its nature be an intermittent operation, unless you are
cutting a long run of slabs in situ. You are probably at most risk of
overheating it when grinding or wire brushing etc.
It is probably worth mentioning that the grinder in this case was
probably just faulty in the first place. Another example of the same
might well cope fine, since the endurance of this one seems
unrealistically poor even for a budget one. Grinders do have the
advantage of getting fan cooling at near full speed for all of their
If you look at the Axminster budget (white) grinders, they get
designated as "trade" (as opposed to "industrial" for the branded ones)
which suggests reasonably intensive use ought to be acceptable.
No, it comes down to reading the instructions, if the tool is used
correctly it works, abuse it and you should expect it to fail - just
how many 'user scenarios' should the designer take into consideration,
any tool will fail if abused.
That's all very well and of course one should read the instructions.
Equally, would there have been anything on the outside of the box
before purchase pointing out that the product can only be run in short
bursts? Doesn't seem likely.
It is reasonable for a user and a designer to assume that a large angle
grinder would be used for cutting a lot of paving slabs, possibly in
It is further reasonable for a customer to assume that if a product can
potentially have an overheating issue that it should protect itself and
not become irreparable damaged.
It isn't as if these are corner cases - they are the main purpose for purchase.
One wouldn't buy one of these for denistry for example, unless one were
a vet at the zoo. Those might be considered to be unreasonable "user
scenarios". Using it for its main intended purpose is not.
The reality is that it has been engineered down to a price on the hope
that the user will hardly use the thing. The supplier has been
caught out and should pay.
Whilst you are correct that the tool has been engineered down to a
price, you're well and truly wrong that either the supplier or
manufacturer should pay for the customer abusing the tool - a refund
should be given on the unused tool if, upon getting the tool home and
reading the instructions , the tool is not fit for the intended use
but if the purchaser ignores the instructions why the f**k should
someone else pay for their stupidity?!
 assuming that it's not clear from the outside of the box.
The customer is not abusing the tool.
If you're going to run that line of argument, you might as well say
that if one buys a car and it says in the small print of the
instructions not to start the engine and one does, then that's abusing
In the context of the instructions, it would be,
In the context of expected reasonable use, that would be as much of a
nonsense as saying that an angle grinder can't be used for the
reasonably expected purpose of cutting slabs to make a drive or patio
in a normal project.
The manufacturer is misrepresenting the fitness for purpose of the
tool. If I buy a car, I don't expect to find a comment that I
can't start the engine. If I buy an angle grinder, then I expect it
to be able to do a proper job and to have a running time suitable for a
typical project in which it would be used.
As an absolute minimum, I would expect it not to overheat and break if
it gets too warm.
How about if you buy a car, refuse to read the manual and don't have it
serviced every 5k miles like it says in the manual?
If the manual says don't run the tool for more than 10 minutes in every 30
minutes and you run it for 5 hours then that is abuse whatever you say.
Do you disregard the maintence info in the manual too?
I expect it to break if it gets too warm.. after all that would be the
definition of too warm wouldn't it?
<significant non relevant snip>
I beg your pardon, you are more anti-deluvian than me!
I bought my wife a new Peugeot earlier this year. The guidebook advised
a first service at 20,000 miles ( yes, miles). The car is full of
electronic gubbins, one of which says that the first service is at
12,000 miles (or 2 years).
I checked with Peugeot UK who advise that go with what the car tells
you. No service from purchase until 2 years or in our case 12,000 miles!
I had incredible difficulty believing this, expecting the first service
to be at 1,500 or at best 5,000 miles!
Seems things have changed.
If I could just get to the Stannah! ;)
How about if you have a car and it says in the manual in the small
print after you have bought it that you can only drive it for ten
minutes and than you have to stop by the side of the road to let it
cool down for half an hour?
That wouldn't really be tenable on the part of the manufacturer would
it? The expectation of the customer is to be able to drive it all day
apart from filling it and him with fuel.
One doesn't even see Skodas parked by the side of the motorway for this
Even more to the point, if one had bought such a car and the engine
irrevocably broke after a day, even when the car was driven within the
speed limit and in the right gear, then it would be reasonable to
expect a replacement.
The point is about expected use for the type of tool. An angle
grinder should be able to run for more than 10 mins in 30, instructions
or no instructions. That is not to say that one shouldn't follow the
instructions, but that this is not a reasonable pattern of use.
Certainly, if the reason for this is that the motor will overheat, then
there should be a thermal cutout to prevent damage. It is perfectly
possible to do this. The reason why it isn't is that it adds to the
manufacturing cost. This only compounds the felony in terms of the
product's lack of fitness for purpose.
Of course not. That is a different issue. Maintenance is part of the
normal expectation of the care of a tool. Presumably the manufacturer
has a complete range of spares in order to facilitate this.
Then you have a low expectation. I would expect it to protect
itself. It is perfectly easy and reasonable to achieve that. The
issue is cost.
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