Continuing Limescale Battle

[Jeff Gaines]

One of my toilet pans is quite badly scaled up in that the water curtain at each side is just a trickle. I have been trying Viakal, white vinegar, Harpic de-scaler etc. and it's better but not as good as it should be.

In prodding about it seems that some of the hole at the side are actually filled with some form of enamel, perhaps it was a second or just poorly made?

This is part of my time cocoon Avocado suite so I don't want to damage it. Is there a strong de-scaler that I can put in the cistern so It works its way though to the pan or will I just damage things?

Many thanks.

[Jeff Layman]

Spirits of Salts won't harm porcelain, but will deal with limescale much more efficiently than any commercial descaler (it's 5x as strong as Harpic descaler). Don't put it in the cistern, though, as it will attack any iron, aluminium, zinc, etc in it.

I would put some in an old "Toilet Duck" which has been thoroughly cleaned, and squirt it up under the rim. Repeat several times if necessary. It goes without saying (but I will anyway) that you *must* wear eye protection. Also, the fumes are pretty nasty, so open the toilet/bathroom window, and try to avoid breathing them in. If that still leaves some limescale, then empty the cistern out of water completely, and pour the acid into the pipe which goes from the bottom of the cistern to the bowl.

[SteveW]

I assume that any blockage is around the rim area? How about using half a football, screwed onto the end of a piece of wood (like a large plunger), one of the inflatable seals used for pressure testing drains or maybe a deflated football placed in the toilet and then inflated, to block off the toilet outlet and fill the whole toilet to the brim with a descaler mix and allow to soak overnight?

[Fredxx]

I've been told categorically it does harm porcelain and takes any gloss / sheen off.

Of course, I could have been told nonsense.

[Colin Bignell]

It hasn't done so to mine WC pan, despite being used every six months or so. It is, however, very nasty stuff and gives off choking fumes. Best applied at arm's length, wearing a respirator with filters designed to stop acid fumes.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Really don't sweat this. it takes weeks to remove years of limescale. What is ideal is to have some toilet duck type crap ready every time you take a piss and if possible load up the cistern with one of those tablets that attacks limescale (but not chrome).

[Jeff Layman]

Porcelain doesn't like alkalis and fluorides, but acids don't bother it (other than Hydrofluoric of course):

[Fredxx]

Apologies, I was confusing Porcelain and enamel. I see many Porcelain cleaners do indeed have Hydrochloric acid of modest strength.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I've used heavy caustic soda and bleach on many items of kitchen and bathroom china with zero effects. The only damage I did was to chrome, and marble, with strong acids.

[Rod Speed]

Yes, you have been told nonsense and its trivial to prove with a free broken one

[Rod Speed]

Nope, routinely used to clean brickwork after bricklaying.

That is wildly overstated.

[Colin Bignell]

Brick acid is usually around 10%. Spirits of Salts is not less than 25%.

Excerpts from

Brick acid* can cause skin burns, eye damage and respiratory inflammation

Precautions: Don't breath the vapour in Wear protective clothing and face protector Only use in a well ventilated area

• This being the weaker of the two.

[Rod Speed]

Utterly mangled all over again.

But the reality is that it doesnt.

Only if you are stupid enough to get it in your eyes. Those using it to clean brick work after bricklaying dont bother with face shields or goggles unless they are stupidly anal.

Ditto.

Only fools do that when cleaning brickwork after bricklaying.

Your original is utterly mangled.

[Chris Hogg]

There's a difference between vitreous enamel, used for example on steel baths and tin mugs and plates, and porcelain used for hand basins and toilets. The latter is much more resistant to corrosive chemicals. I'm not sure which the table in that list is referring to. 'Porcelain enamel' isn't very precise and could refer to either, although 'enamel' usually means the former.

[Jeff Layman]

The spec sheets for the two-piece toilets (cistern+bowl) they supply refer to the material as "vitreous china". Whatever it means, the table shows that the material is resistant to acids.

That table is rather strange anyway, as it mentions resistance at 85°,

212°, and 350°F. How many of the chemicals mentioned would exist at 350°F (177°C)? And I doubt very much they'd be used to clean a bowl at that temperature anyway!

Stand well back when trying it with oleum!!! :-)

[Chris Hogg]

Vitreous china is the term used for almost all UK- and European-made toilets, cisterns and wash basins today. Many decades ago, they were made of 'earthenware' (sometimes described as 'pottery' and a bit like a glazed flowerpot) with porous walls and coated with a glaze to make them waterproof. But if the item got cracked or the glaze got chipped, water or pee or whatever would soak into the walls and it would all get rather unhygienic. So the industry moved to firing at higher temperatures to ensure the items were no longer porous, but became 'vitreous', with appropriate changes in glaze composition to melt at the higher temperatures.

[Andrew]

Neighbours daughter puts tablets in her German Sheperds water bowl so that he doesn't kill the lawn with his pee.

Is there something you could put in your tea to prevent the limescale in the first place ? :-)

[Animal]

Commercial descaling products are almost as weak as water, and for what they are, stupidly overpriced. HCl is the one to use. Other acids also work, the stronger they are the faster they are. But you'll encounter one problem: (I'm told) sale of strong acids is now banned. Don't put any strong acid in the cistern, it'll eat the metal workings. Apply direct to where it's needed, leave it overnight, in the morning take the bogbrush to remove anything loosened. Repeat, repeat. Bog crusting is usually a mix of limescale & bio matter, but under the rim I assume it will only be scale.

[Animal]

£12 a gallon at toolsatan, so I was talking danglies about it being banned.

[Vir Campestris]

He's defending his territory. He owns all those trees, and the humans don't count. It's serious stuff. To him...

Andy