Common property door lock keeps getting changed by one of the unit owners

[543dsa]

Yes.

and there is a legal entity

Yes, but as I said elsewhere, the only viable way to do that with such a small cost is to use the small claims court and the problem is that its decision is not enforceable using a bailiff and it is trivial to ignore debt collectors and they wouldn?t be interested in such a small debt anyway.

Which is why I was asking if anyone could think of any mechanical way to stop the miscreant from keeping on getting a locksmith to keep changing the lock and we have now confirmed that no one can come up with any legal way of actually preventing him from doing that.

Yes, it is certainly possible to get a court injunction to stop him getting the lock changed by a locksmith, but that wouldn?t be cheap and he is likely to just ignore that and is very unlikely to be jailed if he ignores that with a civil matter.

[543dsa]

And while it would certainly be feasible to setup a surveillance camera with movement detection so that any time a locksmith shows up change the lock someone can show up in person or remotely tell the locksmith that he isnt allowed to change the lock and it is unlikely that any locksmith would change it anyway, there isnt anyone there full time who is prepared to do that and it obviously isnt feasible to pay some commercial operation to do that.

[Andy Burns]

Can't you escalate it to a higher court for enforcement?

[543dsa]

No. It has to be a whole new action at a stupid cost.

And we have never had debtors prisons.

[Andy Burns]

Which presumably you can heap onto the d*****ad?

[543dsa]

Only the most outrageous frivolous civil actions ever see costs awarded against the losing party.

And like I said, we have never had debtors prisons.

[Andy Burns]

We don't have them now, yet somehow we manage to get debts settled over here.

[tabbypurr]

welding/brazing the lock in would work upto a point. It would cost the misc reant rather more to change it repeatedly. A completely buried lock that's is operated by something other than a key may also work, eg using a solenoi d.

Is public shaming an option?

NT

[tabbypurr]

Guess: send all known locksmiths a cautionary letter saying they will be do ne for trespass / damage / loss of amenity / etc if any work is not authori sed by whoever.

NT

[543dsa]

No it would not. His locksmith just changes the barrel, not the entire lock.

A locksmith can still change what controls that.

In theory one of those modern electronic locks that allows any mobile phone that has been authorised to unlock it would work, but that isnt really practical with 60 flats and something like 120 mobile phones that keep changing quite frequently as people upgrade their phones. And even with one of those, the locksmith can still change the whole thing.

No, everyone knows who it is, he claims its his balcony.

[543dsa]

Problem is that, as I said in my original, it?s a very large state capital, Sydney, so there are hundreds of locksmiths and so that just isnt practical. And even if it was feasible, he would presumably just use youtube and work out how to change the barrel himself.

Not feasible to put some notice on the lock either, even if it was engraved on the door, he'd just have to cover it with a glued on metal plate etc.

After posting the previous, I did consider actually monitoring the surveillance camera myself even tho I am hundreds of miles away, and telling the locksmith remotely that he isnt allowed to change the lock, using my mobile phone, but have now realised that even that wont work if he chooses to use youtube to work out how to change the barrel himself without a locksmith.

And it isnt even feasible to replace the entire lock with a much more secure one that can not have the barrel changed without a key because he and a number of others actually worked for the builder who built the entire place and some of them chose to buy flats in that building so even if he doesn?t have a key himself after the strata management changes it back again, he would be able to borrow a key from one of his mates who also owns a flat in that building.

[tabbypurr]

and it's gonna take a lot longer if that's brazed in. Sheesh

either the locksmith will have no physical access to it at all, or will onl y have access to the keypad. Either way must not enable changing anything.

how is the locksmith going to change hardware he has no physical access to? Only by cutting the access gate & welding it up afterawrds. It's possible but pricey, especially when the pseudo-owner is immediately denied access a gain.

that does not prevent public shaming being an option. The law might, I know nothing of ozzie law.

[tabbypurr]

ok :/

he may not. Most people never learn that.

Some more options:

1. Vote to deny everyone access to the balcony until it's resolved
2. Buried electrically operated tongue with 60 codes so you know who gave h im the code. Anyone that does then does not get a new code.

Whatever you do will presumably need voting in.

NT

[543dsa]

There has to be access to it in case it dies.

Not possible given that it has to be possible if it dies.

There always has to be physical access in case it dies.

Not possible to deny his mates access.

You can't shame someone when everyone knows who is getting the locksmith to change the lock.

Yes it does. And I doubt he cares anyway given that he is so blatant about getting the lock changed.

He may be too stupid to work out how to change the barrel himself using youtube, he is after all just someone who works for builders, not exactly what you might call rocket scientist material. So it might be worth trying a surveillance camera with two way audio so I can tell his locksmith that he isnt allowed to change the lock. Not clear how long he would be prepared to wait before trying again tho. Not that keen on having to be sure I can tell the locksmith for years and have to check whets going on every time one of the flat owners/tenants uses that balcony for a BBQ for years.

[543dsa]

Yeah, and as I said in the other, he may well be too stupid to do that.

Trouble is deciding when it has been resolved. Likely as soon as everyone can use it again, he will just get the lock changed again. He appears to mostly want to stop others from using it.

That?s not legal.

Maybe not, they are a pretty informal operation and arent currently doing what the law requires on having a proper secretary of the committee etc, presumably because no one wants to volunteer.

[tabbypurr]

ok, you're too thick to do this. Give it to someone that can.

[543dsa]

You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

[Dave W]

OK. Another idea - can you get a gang of men to hump a heavy item onto the balcony that spoils the space? Maybe the man would get tired of getting his own gang to remove it if you kept repeating the process.

[NY]

Have you established whether his aim is to use the balcony, or is it simply that he wants to prevent other people using it without necessarily using it himself?

I like the idea of a large heavy cumbersome object that is too much effort for him to move.

Or else stage a sit-in where you all (in shifts) occupy the balcony until he brings his locksmith along, and then show the locksmith the legal proof that you all share the use of the balcony and say you'll seek damages from the locksmith if he ever defies the ruling which you have just witnessed that he has read. Do that until you've informed all the locksmiths in the area.

[543dsa]

Yes he does, for various stuff like exercise machines and bikes.

or is it simply

Since its adjacent to his flat, likely he isnt that keen on the other people using it for BBQs too.

But that would stop the other people from using it for BBQs.

Can't see that being viable given that there is nothing to stop him paying more to get his locksmith there at 3am etc.

and then show the locksmith the legal proof that

You can't get damages in that situation here, but it would be a pretty gung ho locksmith that would ignore the evidence that he isnt allowed to change the lock because its not his balcony.

That's not feasible, there are a hell of a lot of locksmiths in Sydney.