What the hell do you care about the cost? What's it costing you now? Get a decent attorney for your condo board and have him go ahead if you have a decent case (which it seems that you do). Get a real, good, expensive lawyer while you're at it. If you win, the cost of proceedings and your representation are the responsibility of the a**hole who keeps changing the locks.
Just get a locksmith to change the lock to his unit! Give him the key once he agrees to supply keys for the access door.
Forgive me asking, but why are you asking in a UK group. As a matter of interest, where is it?
If it is completely clear that this a communal area - written into deeds, contracts, tenancy agreements or whatever - surely you can get the management company to organise a solicitor's letter to him warning that if he has it changed again they will charge him for replacement, plus time and effort organising it.
After he has changed it a few times, they can bill him and when he refuses to pay, they can take him to the small claims court with copies of the initial letter, proof of delivery and subsequent bills for the replacement.
SteveW
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Why not? He's got to pay the rent, doesn't he? Who's the owner for this property that does the changing back?
It's never been stated so far as to what the actual organization of the ownership of these units is.
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That's damage to the base property and probably some other specific items as well in infringement of rights and such.
There are all kinds of damages other than purely physical.
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You want cheap or effective?
Take your choice--if you're not willing to ante up to stop the problem, you'll continue to be taken advantage of.
If it comes to actual court action, you'll have the opportunity to collect costs and since the person must have assets in order to do this frequently out of own pocket, applying liens against those to collect would be of some effect.
On 9/21/2018 2:44 AM, 543dsa wrote: ...
I wouldn't be so prone to discount it being criminal action against the property a priori...there's tort damage other than just physical when tampering with someone else's stuff.
As others have said, at least get a consultation if you have any intent of following up on it and getting any satisfaction.
Clearly without either physically restraining the dude or having something other than "please" to back up action you're not going to get any where.
Yes I did, currently the owners committee is paying and sending him the bill for the changed they get done to reverse what he had got a locksmith to do. He is obviously paying the locksmith to change the lock to his own unique key that no one else has a key for.
Because it isnt possible to make him pay the legal costs.
Just the much lower cost of changing the lock, which he is being billed for. It remains to be seen if he will pay that.
This isnt in the USA.
It doesn?t work like that here, in Australia.
Nope, he's an owner, not a renter.
Each of the 60 flats/apartments is owned by separate individuals.
It?s a strata title building in Australia. Sort of like a condo in the US, but legally quite different in detail. We don?t have anything like home owners associations here.
No its not.
But is isnt CRIMINAL damage.
And you're confusing rights with damages that can be awarded when some actions are taken.
It isnt likely to be cheap or effective. He is free to ignore what the court rules.
We havent had debtors prisons for centuries now.
Its unlikely that anteing up will stop the problem.
Not here.
He doesn?t have to have assets to do that, just income.
It isnt someone else's stuff, its common property.
Waste of money if it doesn?t stop the problem and it wont.
Not even legally possible to do that.
Pissing heaps of money into lawyers pockets isnt going to get anywhere.
On 9/21/2018 8:26 PM, 543dsa wrote: ...
Well, if you so sure there is no solution, then may as well just accept the situation.
The alternatives then would seem to be move or put up with it or hire some muscle and put a stop to it.
I would doubt there is _no_ legal recourse if the facts of the situation are as described.
Income is an asset; the owned property is an asset, undoubtedly he has others as well...
On 9/21/2018 8:30 PM, 543dsa wrote: ...
It isn't _HIS_ stuff, ergo it's somebody else's (that may be a collective group including him, but it isn't his).
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Pissing and moaning here even less...
I was seeing if there is any MECHANICAL solution which would stop any locksmith changing the lock for him. No one has been able to suggest one and a locksmith I asked says that there is no way to do that.
Its worth trying cheap possibilitys like seeing if a stern letter from a solicitor can make him stop getting the lock changed, and since the mate of mine who is having the problem with the lock changer has a relative who is a solicitor, worth trying that for free.
The lock changer is just someone who works for a builder and it may well be possible to bluff him that way. Certainly worth trying when it doesn?t cost anything to try that.
Yeah, that?s a real possibility given that there are lots of other real problems with that block of units and it is now clear that strata titles have real downsides. Main problem is that we are having a full royal commission into the entire banking industry here and banks are much more cautious about who they lend to and the load for that flat was a bit dodgy like not mentioning that they have a 4 year old who is in child care 3 days a week. OTOH he starts school next year, in January, so that might not be a problem.
Cant remember if I told you that it isnt me personally with the problem, it?s a mate of mine, not me.
His wife wouldn?t be into that last approach and likely the strata committee wouldn?t be either. They are unlikely to put up with it either.
There certainly is, but it wouldn?t be cheap and there is no certainty that the lock changer wouldn?t just ignore a court order to stop changing the lock and the court certainly wont jail him if he ignores that. You have to get way out of line before they will jail you for ignoring a court judgement in a civil matter.
Not if he spends it as soon as he receives it and he likely is doing that given his income working for a building isnt likely to be that great and he will be paying off the mortgage on the flat and likely has a stupidly expensive flash car to pay off too. The banks here are very stupid about what they will lend people like that for stuff like new cars.
Its unlikely that he has much equity if any in his flat.
You don?t know that either. He may well be up to his eyeballs in debt and has a big debt on multiple cards.
The short story is that it would be stupid to spend lots of money on legal parasites in the hope that that will stop him changing the lock. There is no chance that successful legal action will see him forced to pay the legal costs in a civil matter like this one. Our legal system is nothing even remotely like yours.
dpb wrote
Nope, it doesn?t work like that here. It is in fact common property explicitly covered by the strata title legislation.
And the is no provision for CRIMINAL damage to common property under out strata title legislation.
The most that can happen with wilful damage to common property here is that the individual has to pay for that damage but changing the lock isnt damage under out strata title law.
But it isnt CRIMINAL DAMAGE as was originally claimed and you have carefully deleted from the quoting.
Havent done anything like that.
Fat lot of good that will do you, you stupid plonker.
I was seeing if there is any MECHANICAL solution which would stop any locksmith changing the lock for him. No one has been able to suggest one and a locksmith I asked says that there is no way to do that.
Its worth trying cheap possibilitys like seeing if a stern letter from a solicitor can make him stop getting the lock changed, and since the mate of mine who is having the problem with the lock changer has a relative who is a solicitor, worth trying that for free.
The lock changer is just someone who works for a builder and it may well be possible to bluff him that way. Certainly worth trying when it doesn?t cost anything to try that.
Yeah, that?s a real possibility given that there are lots of other real problems with that block of units and it is now clear that strata titles have real downsides. Main problem is that we are having a full royal commission into the entire banking industry here and banks are much more cautious about who they lend to and the load for that flat was a bit dodgy like not mentioning that they have a 4 year old who is in child care 3 days a week. OTOH he starts school next year, in January, so that might not be a problem.
Cant remember if I told you that it isnt me personally with the problem, it?s a mate of mine, not me.
His wife wouldn?t be into that last approach and likely the strata committee wouldn?t be either. They are unlikely to put up with it either.
There certainly is, but it wouldn?t be cheap and there is no certainty that the lock changer wouldn?t just ignore a court order to stop changing the lock and the court certainly wont jail him if he ignores that. You have to get way out of line before they will jail you for ignoring a court judgement in a civil matter.
Not if he spends it as soon as he receives it and he likely is doing that given his income working for a building isnt likely to be that great and he will be paying off the mortgage on the flat and likely has a stupidly expensive flash car to pay off too. The banks here are very stupid about what they will lend people like that for stuff like new cars.
Its unlikely that he has much equity if any in his flat.
You don?t know that either. He may well be up to his eyeballs in debt and has a big debt on multiple cards.
The short story is that it would be stupid to spend lots of money on legal parasites in the hope that that will stop him changing the lock. There is no chance that successful legal action will see him forced to pay the legal costs in a civil matter like this one. Our legal system is nothing even remotely like yours.
Pretty much the norm in my area - there really isn't anything else we could reasonably do. Bins out on bin day, or earlier if you are going to be away.
Chris
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