Building your own shed/workshop


wibbled:

More to the point, the limitation on 15 sq metres within 0.5m of the boundary does not apply for buildings made of 'substantially non-inflammable materials'. I am going to check, but assume that blockwork would be considered substantially non-inflammable.
I assume that this is to avoid a major fire risk to fences and neighbouring buildings.
I am not too concerned about high level security - the crime rate is quite low around here - I am mainly concerned with 'bangs per buck' and ease of construction plus conforming to any building restrictions. Being able to go over 15 sq metres within 0.5m of the boundary may be a strong argument for blockwork. The garden is fairly small and plan #1 has already been abandoned because the shed all the way across the bottom of the garden would be too intrusive, especially with the 1m gap from the rear fence.
One attraction of blocks is the low ongoing maintenance. Timber is attractive but does need regular treatment to avoid rot.
It may also be easier to hang shelves, benches etc. from a block wall.
This is now making me wonder if I will need pillars to strengthen the wall - or if a 5m run of single block will be O.K.
Nothing is easy ;-)
Cheers
Dave R
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David WE Roberts coughed up some electrons that declared:

Agree totally :)

The house I grew up in had a standalone brick garage about that length - or perhaps a little longer. That was single brick wall with one double thickness butress about halfway along each long side.
That didn't fall over.
You can always have the butresses external to save messing up a nice internal wall.
I don't honestly know if you *need* them for 5m.
Cheers
Tim

Ha - Taking me 3 days to do a one day job of fitting conduit in the new kitchen and insulating and plasterboarding the bay windows... Mind you, I do have about 36 drops of conduit plus interlinks! And some of that is in carefully bent round 20 and 25mm (all the stuff that goes though the bay window ceilings up into the roof void above plus cooker drop). Utter bitch of a job and I;m all covered in expanding foam having emptied 2.5 gun cans up there to seal the celotex in. Cloths, hair, shoes, floor - everywhere...
But I wore gloves this time so I can still move my fingers.
If they still had factory apprentices these days, I'm sure that one of the initiations would be to fill the lad's underpants with a can of Siroflex's finest.
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Tim S wrote:

Have you tried a can of the foam solvent? very good at getting it off stuff while still wet.
--
Cheers,

John.

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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
something like:

The most impressive single-skin brick garage I saw was actually a truck shed, of about 30' long by 30' wide and two stories empty space. Not a buttress in sight and...

It had been up for many years, too. Probably fallen over now, mind.
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More likely a grade II listed building
--
geoff

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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:04:05 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

Ha - I'm halfway through reading that at the mo. Forgotten how good it is/was too, although I think I still prefer Withnail...

Heck. Must have had some serious foundation to it...
I don't remember any buttresses on the brick vehicle sheds on any of the farms that any of my dad's family had, either. They they weren't two storeys, but must have been 60' or more long. I remember my cousin levelling the end of one when backing a trailer in... :-)
cheers
Jules
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Jules

I recall a local telling me the bloke who built it was a notorious cheapskate, so I doubt the founds were expensive. Struck me as utterly pointless, when for much less cost and time he could have easily stuck some RSJs vertically in concrete, like every other agribuilding near him and had a much more sturdy construction. I suspect it was a case of bricks was all he had, so that's all he used. What gave me pause and a sharp intake of breath was the sight of a fuck-off engine hoist fastened to a beam running from one wall top to another. I honestly don't know why that shed hadn't collapsed.

Quite so - curtain walls like that are very weak when hit.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:07:49 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

Yeah, seems like an odd way of doing it. Must have been a case of him getting a boat-load of bricks cheap off a mate, so that's what he used (I suppose I like using what I have around rather than spending cash on new materials - but I sure as heck wouldn't do it when it'd result in a compromised structure)

Ha ha! I can just picture the sharp intake of breath every time it was used...
(Oddly enough, it's already crossed my mind that when I rebuild our garage I want to build in some extra strength in the right places so I can put a hoist in)
cheers
J.
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Grimly Curmudgeon coughed up some electrons that declared:

You could do an imaginative long shed with a single thickness crinkle-crankle wall - those are much stronger.
Assuming one has a bit of space to waste...
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On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:54:55 +0100, Tim S wrote:

It's a lot of fun :-)
How big is this thing going to be? If it's a sizeable workshop I'd be very tempted to go for a concrete floor and lower walls (i.e. up a couple of feet from ground level) - point noted about ladder storage, however. I just like solid floors in workshops, not something that might be prone to vibration or moisture issues.

Typical on this side of the Pond is pretty much that - something substantial for the floor (2x6 or 2x8 with 1/2" or 3/4" board atop, or solid concrete) then 2x4 for the framing / roof with 3/8" or 1/2" particle board on top of that. Cover with some sort of moisture barrier and then some sort of wood / vinyl / aluminium cladding over the top. You can insulate from the inside between the framework and then clad that in whatever you fancy, too.
Untreated 2x4's in 8' lengths are less than $2 here at the local DIY shed - which is what, about £1.20? (be intersting to know how that does compare to UK price at the Sheds, actually)
5'x8' 3/8" board works out at less than £5 - I don't recall how much more the thicker stuff is.
Insulation's dirt cheap for a big roll. It's the moisture barrier material, cladding on top of that, and whatever you cover the roof with which pushes the cost up.
Personally I can't wait to tear our old double garage down and rebuild it, and also get stuck into fixing our barn (one of those classic old US arched-roof affairs). I've got a floor to raise in our back porch and a deck to build first, though ;-)
cheers
Jules
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Jules coughed up some electrons that declared:

:)
About 15m2 +/- (we won't be too pedantic about planning - as long as it looks about right to the neighbours...)

Planed definately costs more in 2x4 (having bought that recently). Don;t see so much rough sawn in my local places, unless it's really crap gardening grade stuff.

I was considering celotex, but it's probably cheaper to use bigger wood to compensate for glass wool being a poorer insulator. Or use polystyrene.

Cool - enjoy :)
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On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:17:33 +0100, Tim S wrote:

Hmm, no plans to ever sell? I had the impression that not dotting the i's and crossing the t's was a big no-no these days in the UK because it could really mess things up at selling time... CBW, though.

Yeah, this is all planed. The good stuff's pretty good, the downside is that there are always a few horrors that creep into the pile (enormous knots or really warped boards), so it pays to sort through at the store and get a good load.
I found a label on one of my off-cuts, but it wasn't exactly a lot of help. Poking around the Shed's website suggests it's probably Southern Yellow Pine, but that's by no means definite.
(Oh, and FYI the pressure-treated 2x4's are $2.97 for an 8' length at the nearby Shed - so £1.80 or thereabouts. I might be tempted to use some of that around a doorway where it might catch some rain / moisture occasionally, although it's probably just as easy to treat the normal stuff with some brush-on gloop after building)

moisture barrier

I thought polystyrene wasn't supposed to be as good as glass wool, just a bit easier to work with - BICBW. (I don't have much in the 'surplus' pile to compare with - the poly stuff that I have laying around is indeed worse than the glass wool I have, but then it's also only around 1 1/2" deep, compared to the glass wool at about 3 1/2")
I think blown paper fibre's actually supposed to be quite good on the price/performance front and has a nice recycling feel to it, but having lots of paper in the walls of a workshop makes me a bit jittery.

The barn's going to be interesting - 40' up to the roofline, plus I need to do some work on the frame behind the end wall, and shoring that much weight up while working on it will be fun.
The new porch floor and deck are trivial in comparison... which might actually be a key to good DIY - always have a harder project lined up so that the current one seems really easy ;-)
cheers
Jules
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Jules coughed up some electrons that declared:

No I don't really care about a shed. If the buyer objects, I'll knock it down for them - difference in price between a house with a shed and without is likely negligable. Probably find a sudden attitude shift then. Anyway - after a few years, planning contraventions become moot (It's about 4 years I think under English law, after which they can't touch you. Might be a different figure - depends on the type of contravention but in either case, I'll be in the clear.)
Buyers here fall into 2 groups. One group is pragmatic and is certainly not going to worry about technical flaws in a shed. The other group panicks whenever their solicitor wibbles. For them there is indemnity insurance or just tell them to go away.

B&Q will reliably sell you all warped timber.

I've got some "yellow pine" for my shelves. It was pretty good stuff. Don't know if there's "yellow pine" and "yellow pine".

Wool's an option too - Ireland's knocking out loads of sheep's wool in insulation format. I think it's partly a way to get rid of the stuff that's too rough for clothing - but it's good good attributes. Doesn't support combustion readily, non irritant, about the same U value as glass wool.
If I were using glass wool in a house, I'd use sheep's wool instead. As it happens, I'll probably need to use celotex for space reasons - and glass wool is less of a problem on a shed (outside).

That's far too much fun to be having! I assume you have acres?

Good luck with it all.
Cheers
Tim
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On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:40:40 +0100, Tim S wrote:

At a premuim, no doubt. I don't have very fond memories of B&Q :-)

It certainly seems strong enough - I've not tested it to destruction, but a 2x4 of the stuff takes a lot of abuse. Throw enough of them into a frame for a building and I don't think the side loading's evr a problem - although I'm not sure I'd want to try a multi-storey building out of the stuff (I bet it's quite explosive if given enough compression!)

That's an interesting one. Wonder what the longevity's like (particularly if it ever absorbs moisture - I suppose it's not much good if it contracts and doesn't return to form once it dries out). Blown paper concerns me similarly - sounds good, but I'm just not sure what it'll be like 20 or 30 years down the line. Tried-and-tested might well be worth it just for peace of mind.

Not much - the old dear who used to own this place had sold nearly all of the land off, so we've just got a couple of acres of trees and similar for lawn. It's nice to have the out-buildings though (even if some of them do need some serious attention) and that sort of space is a useful amount for the kids to play in without being a major chore to maintain. They won't let folk build new property on less than 6 acres where we are, so we know we're not going to get anyone doing anything major right next door or anything.

Ta - you too. I'm following your exploits (a bit haphazardly) with interest :-)
cheers
Jules
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