Bog boxing in - sounding out some ideas before I buy stuff

[Tim Watts]

SWMBO wants a bog. Well, one that's not in the hall anyway. They are

*so* unreasonable, these women! ;->

Anyway, here's the new one, dry fitted (and kids instructed NOT to test!):

'd like to box in that rear pipe - and the main stack. The rear boxing is fairly standard - rectangular, about a foot high - or 2' high if I take the flush pipe from the high level cistern through it, tiled on the front with a solid wood lid that can be lifted for checking... I'll try to make the front panel in 2 parts around the soil pipe, screwed on with grout over the screws so it *could* be removed non destructively if the worst happens...

Now, that white pipe sticking out the top of the stack sports a 50mm AAV and has to be > 3' high or so to be above the flood line of the basin, which comes in on that other white pipe down below.

So, I'm thinking of a vertical column, with a door, all tiled including the door itself - bit like this from the top:

=========== Rear Wall ======== | | | Stack | | / | /

[Jim K]

is the bog choice final? just (still ;>)) doing a wall-hung bog which would have dealt with most of that pipe-age and makes a small bathroom look bigger (apparently) cos you can see under it....

ply - I pondered this when doing above - thinnest I considered was

15mm but went for 18mm - only 3mm after all.. 18mm still flexes over a span of 750mm (between two uprights - I'll add a noggin before final fix) tho plenty of your 2X2 etc should sort that.

drawers under the bath sounds cool but I can see *a lot* of work for little practical useful space....

siliconing bogs in - never done it - but expect some sort of a "cheese wire" would undo most adhesion should the need arise?

cheers Jim K

[dom]

That was my thought too, after looking at the photos. The recess is ideal.

Wall hung loos can fairly easily be removed to enable removing the panel behind - plus you would have the removable wooden top panel.

Can highly recommend the Grohe-frame kit if you go down that route.

[Tim Watts]

Yes (and to Dom) the bog choice is final ;-> I see your points. My choice of high level was to get a decent flush with the diminishing amounts of water they hold though. I feel in my bones that I'm not going to regret that move.

OK - 18mm it is then :) Thanks for confirming that.

True - and provides weak spots WRT water. OTOH, there is a very sizeable recess at the rear end - I could store *all* of our spare shampoo, bubble bath, bleach and whatnots there. Maybe just a door and a shelf. Doors are easy... Then I don't need a cabinet on the wall.

Some here have claimed too - I'd never heard of it before. Despite the fact that the tiles are dead flat and level under there, the bog base isn't perfect so I reckon it needs something. That could be a piece of conformal sheet like rubber or 2-3 layers of DPC or something. Or it could be some silicone with the bog wedged up on 1mm packers while it sets then screwed down tight.

I like the cheesewire theory. That should work. hopefully, there is no reason that I would ever need to take it out in the next 30 years, but I don't like knowingly shooting myself in the foot :)

SWMBO came back and we had another idea. I could box in upto 2' high round the bog *and* the stack, using the same column footprint mentioned earlier. But instead of continuing the column up as a closed box, I could change over to open fronted (level with the top of the rear box) with the sides made of nice wood and not tiled with little shelves in. OK, the AAV pipe would be visible, but it would be white against white tiles and behind bog roles and pot-pourri or whatever SWMBO sticks there. I might use oak, and same stuff for the lid of the back box. That would be a feature with continuity with the door framing. Bit easier to construct too. I'm liking this... All the low down stuff will be easy to wash tiles.

Cheers

Tim

[Jim K]

aye 2 bolts and an extra pair of hands plus a mop and bucket I hope/ expect. All the cistern joints and components can be got at/out through the flush plate aperture, removing the bog reveals reasonable access to the soil pipe runs behind.

(I'm using a GEBERIT frame (ebay) - very nicely thought out kit - hope it works! :>))

Cheers JimK

[Colin Wilson]

What about the cabinets where the bog butts up to the front, and all pipework is hidden behind it ?

A quick call around some local bathroom places, and you'll probably be able to get a small shelving unit to fit alongside it as well.

[John Rumm]

As others suggested, a wall hung frame mounted bog would be ideal for that situation. You could either take the wall up to just above AAV height and go with the hardwood lid plan, or just goe floor to ceiling.

With these the frame carries the weight generally. 1/2" ply is adequate to tile over. The top bit with no weight on can be plasterboard.

Not sure about the slanty edge - just draws attention to it.

Even if not wanting to go for the full expense of a frame bog, then use a bog standard(!) back to the wall floor standing one, and a concealed cistern - again go half way up and use the wood top (somewhere to mount the the (typically pneumatic) flush release).

Yes.

No, you can run a wire under it (guitar string works well). With afloor stander, you can usually just seal around the base to prevent ingress of water or other erm, "fluids". The time I found silicone very handy was on the so called free standing close coupled jobbies where the cister tended to waggle about with the flex in the floor. Siliconing it to the wall fixed that.

[Tim Watts]

It's an interesting theory. I quite like those hung bogs, but the decision is made :-O

Good point. Time for a full size cardboard mockup methinks...

So 15mm...

Aha.

Thanks John.

Cheers

Tim

[dom]

Not used the Geberit frame, but my experience of other geberit fittings is first class - I'd say they just have the edge over Grohe.

In fact, like a lot of things that need to be well engineered, "buy german" has a lot going for it.

I used Bette for my bath and shower trays - again, tiptop stuff.

[Owain]

I would suggest not storing the bleach and the shampoo in the same place.

Please don't ask me how I know this.

Owain

[Tim Watts]

Went for the Boris Johnson look?

Seriously, it's a good point. Bleach should live under the kitchen sink with all the other nasties...

[<me9]

I've been saying that for years. How do I persuade SWMBO /not/ to store bleach with other nasties on /top/ of the kitchen units, where I can just reach enough to knock them off. I was indoctrinated in my first job not to store corrosives etc. above eye height for good reason.

[Tim Watts]

Hang on a minute... I've just read the Floplast datasheet on their AAVs... It says the AV/AF110 or AV/AF32's *can* be installed below the flood line of connected appliances (the basin). The only stipulation is that the AV/AF110 be installed 200mm above the highest wet entry to the main branch, which on the diagram is the loo entry to that tee.

that basis, I should get the AV110, shove it on a short stub of 110 into the top of that stack and run a shelf right over the top, which by my reckoning, should be an inch or three above the loo seat. I could then run the shelf round the left of the bog, less deep, same height to contain most of the basin waste, just allowing it to pop out just as it turns the corner to go under the basin.

Now that is a *lot* simpler... No complicated pillar cupboards... It will look far more subtle and with the two shelves lifted off, access to the entire assembly will be easy.

I did think about shoving my AF32 baby AAV under the basin and venting from there. It's a chancier option. It would probably work, but it's not "by the book" being an undersized device and I'd want to allow for putting a 110 AAV in anyway just in case. For an extra 16 quid (mine was

4 quid, so hardly much lost) I feel more inclined to go for it.

Better buy the bog seat now just to check that that will not foul the shelf...

[george [dicegeorge]]

But under the sink little children could get it and drink it or make 'potions'

[g]

[John Rumm]

12mm will be plenty - its not taking any load

[Tim Watts]

I guess I'm worried about it being kicked and cracking the tiles/grout. But then I suppose PB walls get thumped when they're tiled (eg shower) and they don't crack...

[Jim K]

mmm I might prefer a bit more vertically behind the bog? otherwise inevitable ahem "splashes" may well cover the contents of the shelves.....??

Cheers JimK

[Tim Watts]

This is a good point. I've set the minimum, but I can go higher. Time to play cardboard...

Bit annoyed - one of my tiles has cracked round by the bath - it's a very thin one on the end by the bath (1" wide) and sits on the wood framing of the bath. Oh well, have to cut it out. Think I'll silicone it's replacement in, obviously a slight bit of movement in the framing.

[Jim K]

i played about with all sorts of ideas planning my current bathroom project (and previous cloaks) on Google Sketchup, good results after initial investment learning...

cheers Jim K

[Tim Watts]

I've designed studwork with Sketchup. I also did the general house design in TurboFlooPlan which has good 3D. Sometimes, though, cardboard is easier because people can "be there" and feel it ;->