Bicycle bells

[T i m]

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:32:19 +0000, [e-mail] (Roger Hayter) wrote: <snip>

And the problem being they came that way from the factory? ;-(

Possibly because of the above and it being pretty low down the order of things these days.

I think they often do include the latter, indicating that they should be mounted in such a way so as to not dazzle anyone. However, if you buy and fit them because you want to be seen (rather than to see by them) I'm not sure how much notice they would take of the instructions?

Most of my cycles run a twin headlight system, main beam and dipped. 'Dipped' is a lower power lamp and so doesn't actually carry that far, if you actually want to use it to cycle by. So that is set facing the road a few meters ahead and doesn't look bright at all.

Main beam is set to centre the beam on the road further ahead but is still just a battery powered incandescent lamp (with good reflector) so you do get a fairly broad light source that still isn't that bright, unless you are quite low and quite close to it.

The difference between the two is enough however to be used to remind car drivers they are still on main beam. ;-)

I think most (decent) cycle lights have to conform to something (or pretend to), not sure how often or when they would get checked though?

Cheers, T i m

[Vir Campestris]

1Hz is too slow. We could easily have moved 30 metres against each other between flashes.

Andy

[Richard]

3) After paragraph 12(b) there shall be inserted?

?(c)in the case of a front position lamp capable of emitting a flashing light which is fitted to? (i)a pedal cycle; or (ii)a trailer drawn by, or a sidecar attached to, a pedal cycle;the light shown by the lamp when flashing shall be displayed not less than

60 nor more than 240 equal times per minute and the intervals between each display of light shall be constant.?

From:

"pedal%20cycle"

[Adam Funk]

I agree. ISTR that some cyclists wanted flashing lights in order to make it obvious from a distance that they were on a bike?

Even worse is a group of lights flashing differently!

[Steve Walker]

None of them are flashing to draw your eye directly to them though!

The trouble is that bike lights are generally clamped on and it can be done at any angle. They also turn from side to side with the steering and with any wobble to the bike. They can also be knocked up or sideways. They have no dip cut-off and no testing.

Motor vehicle lights are mounted firmly, have a built-in dip cut-off, self-levelling these days and are tested for alignment annually.

The problem is that bike lights have become much more powerful than they were, but have no method of restricting their ability to dazzle others, no method of ensuring that they are correctly aligned and no testing and enforcement - plus making them flash just attracts everyone's eyes to them for an instant dose of night-blindness.

SteveW

[T i m]

<snip>

All true. However, anyone using them as an actual light,rather than just a beacon would likely re-adjust them if the did move.

But unless stopped by the Police could be wrong for the other 364 days of the year?

'Typically' yes, because of the advent of LEDs. I would suggest the 6V twin headlight setup I have on a couple of my bikes, the 'main beam' is a more powerful 'light' than most carry today.

Of course they do, by suitable fixing and alignment.

For me it's pretty instant, as soon as it get's dark! My dipped beam illuminates the road a few m in front of me and is very obvious if it isn't. It has never moved in use.

No formal / routine testing but as enforceable as any other light used on the road.

"You MUST NOT

use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders".

There seems to be liitle point having a rule in the highway code and not being able to enforce it?

That's part of the idea, to get our attention so we don't kill them when we pull out in front of them with the classic 'I didn't see him' plea.

It has been shown that people have a memory for this sort of thing (or lack thereof) where they initially see an oncoming thing but then forget they saw it and pull out in front of it.

Anything that makes that memory last longer (in light of the fact that cyclists do get killed because of such) would be seen as a good thing by 'most people' (the injured / dead cyclist, their family, you, your family, the emergency services, the taxpayer, people trying to be green ...).

I'm not advocating the use of overbright lights set to dazzle, I'm advocating the use of a light or lightS to both see by and to be seen by, be they on a car, cycle or horse. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Steve Walker]

But so many of the bike lights do. The flashing attracts your eyes directly to them (unlike car lights), the lack of proper control of them means you are dazzled and all you can see is the afterglow.

Some even wear them on their head, so as soon as they look at you, the direct the light right at you.

Flashing to be noticed is fine, the far more powerful bike lights in use today without any anti-dazzle measures is not.

SteveW

[T i m]

<snip>

Agreed, however, I would say most are pretty small and fairly innocuous. These are typically the sort you fix to the bike using a sort of rubber band are really are only just a marker.

It might, with some. I will agree with you that they are often more noticeable (because they offer a sense of urgency from the rider and so you might 'watch out' for them more?) than a smaller constant light but maybe you are part Magpie, as I can happily keep them in my peripheral vision. ;-)

That said, I might sometimes actually look at them out of interest (being a cyclist).

Lack of 'self control' you mean? You don't actually have to look at them. ;-)

But they are likely to be the smaller / lower power lights and less likely to present a beam as such. They might be a bright point source, but they don't project that much.

Yup, in a minority of cases I agree with you, [1] but then how does that differ from any other sort of anti-social activity?

Cheers, T i m

[1] We regularly walk alongside some busy urban roads / high streets and at all hours (inc all hours of the night) and cycling is pretty common / popular (there is probably at least one cycle in view at any time). Maybe it's because I'm 6'2" tall but even though we typically walk towards the traffic, I really can't say I'm regularly affected by these lights and they are often passing me close.

When driving my eyeline is probably lower but typically the offending cycle lamps are now the width of one lane away from me. I am much more affected by the sheer power and focus of over bright vehicle headlights.

[Danny Colyer]

A well-designed bike light (e.g. my Edelux) will have what I presume you mean by a dip cut-off. The light is cast where it needs to be, on the road ahead, without spilling upwards to dazzle other road users.

Such lights are comparatively rare in the UK, though. Most just put out an unfocused cone of light.