Bicycle bells

[Clive Page]

I have on my bike an air horn (AirZound is the brand if I remember correctly). Its selling point is that it is licenced by the US Coastguard as a fog horn for use on small ocean-going vessels. My experience of using it on my bike is that it works pretty well even on double-decker buses and 40-ton trucks which get in my way, and sometimes even penetrates the ears of those walking or cycling while wearing headphones or ear-buds (who otherwise seem oblivious to warning noises).

But for unprotected pedestrian ears at short-range it is a bit louder than needed, and sometimes makes them jump up in the air a little, which can be unproductive as they can't easily change direction while they are no longer in contact with the ground. With practice one can make it emit a gentler sound, but in emergencies one tends to press the button enthusiastically so the sound can be rather loud.

Apart from the fact that the air reservoir needs pumping up almost every day, it works very well and I recommend the device.

[Vir Campestris]

I see a flash, and I know something was there. Somewhere. But now I can't see it...

Please PLEASE have lights that don't go off completely, just go bright-dim.

It's funny, cyclists around here either seem to have nothing (or a dim glow) or else something an anti-aircraft battery would be proud of.

I saw a guy the other night carefully signalling right with his black glove on his black jacket. Would have missed it if he wasn't approaching a cycle path I know about.

Andy

[Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)]

And the blind of course. I can tell you its not funny.

Brian

[news19k]

I find the main problem with flashing bike lights is that they make it much harder to judge the distance and speed of the bicycle, and perhaps worse, are so "look at meee!", they significantly distract attention from other vehicles on the road.

I'd quite like to find some research results on whether my experience is typical (or maybe isn't), but haven't been able to find anything.

#Paul

[T i m]

This was part of the argument against compulsory use of the dipped beam on motorcycles as daylight riding lights, as in certain conditions (where a headlight may not actually be needed) you lost the ability to see the profile of an oncoming motorbike and so could assume it was a slower motorcycle / scooter / moped or even a cycle (and possibly pull out in front of it?).

I assume the stats will prove that on average, the use of such lights are proven to be a positive safety feature.

I don't believe there are many people who think that outside 'look at me and notice I'm here please'.

If your experience is the 'bright lights flashing in your face' I'm sure you share that view with many. The issue being how often do such lights actually hurt, injure or kill compared with the cyclist running maybe a dimmer / non-flashing light?

FWIW, I don't run flashing lights at the front of any cycle and will sometimes run a sequencing rear LED light alongside a static one.

The idea *is* to have people see you, not for you to just blend into the background. You might look out for a small static cycle headlight but many don't so as usual, people sometimes have to do things to cater for the minority.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. When out walking the dog yesterday at dusk, a jogger ran towards and past us sporting a flashing white light. Because I was with the Mrs, I didn't feel it was appropriate to turn round to look to see if she also had a light highlighting her rear as she jogged past [1]. ;-)

[1] If at any point of her journey was along a shared use pathway or the road it would make sense that she did.

[Scott]

Has anyone tried one of these horns that sounds like an emergency vehicle? I've seen one described as the loudest bicycle horn in the world.

Before anyone asks, this would be for HGVs and buses in emergency, not for intimidating pedestrians and dog owners.

[Bob Eager]

When I had my Honda CB72, I fitted twin Maserati air horns...

[Dave Liquorice]

That's why it flashes at 1 Hz or 2 Hz or so and not too bright.

That would probably be counted as "flashing" and thus not a legal cycle light. Fairly sure that to be legal cycle lights have to be steady. So all cycles should have steady lights as a minimum.

Yep, I've been dazzled, ie spots before the eyes, conscious effort not to look at the source, by front cycle lights in day light!

Same applies to pedestrians as well. Frequently the only reason you see a pedestrian at all is their silhouette against a lighter background. No light background and they are effectively invisible.

[T i m]

<snip>

I'm not sure if there might be some legal issues there?

;-)

In many cases, being seen and heard can make you safer and as you say, for some instances that means you have to be very 'loud' (lights / noise).

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

That must have been a surprise for a few people! ;-)

The airhorn on the tandem is pretty loud and being based on it's own pump up pressure vessel, is very light and pretty fast in use (some electrical pump type horns take a while to come up to pressure).

If you use it a lot, you just get the cycle pump out. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Bob Eager]

At the time it wasn't that common for a bike to have a 12 volt battery.

One time I was moving slowly in traffic on Brighton seafront, and two girls walked right out in front of me. When the horns went off, they dived forward under nearly went under the traffic coming the other way...

I remembered that recently when I passed the same spot (I grew up in Brighton).

[T i m]

That part would only have been a surprise to those into motorbikes. ;-)

I have witnessed similar when following a mate blipped the throttle of his 1100 GIXER (with non std pipes) and these two girls jumped out of their skins. By the time I went past they were in heaps of laughter. ;-)

It's funny how such things do stick in ones memory.

Cheers, T i m

[Danny Colyer]

15 years ago you'd have been right. Now, not so much. Flashing lights were made legal by the 2005 amendments to the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations: The changes were consulted on beforehand. Sadly my response to the consultation had no effect on the final legislation.

I objected to legalising flashing front lights on the basis that, with the way that cycle lighting technology was developing at the time, it would not be long before flashing lights became a serious dazzling hazard.

I also objected to allowing a flashing light to be used without a steady light alongside it. Anyone who has ridden behind a flashing light on an unlit cyclepath will know just how hard it is to track a moving object when your only visual point of reference keeps disappearing.

[Scott]

Yes, they would need to be able to substantiate the claim :-)

[Steve Walker]

I don't know if any new stats have come out, but part of the argument against DRLs was that while they would have a positive benefit in some countries (particularly Scandinavian ones), they would serve no purpose in other countries and would make cyclists, motorcyclists and pedestrians less visible.

I am perfectly happy for cyclists to use flashing lights at both front and rear, but flashing, very bright ones draw other road users eyes straight to them and immediately destroy any vestige of night vision, leaving people with dancing after-images and driving blind.

One of the big problems is that motor vehcile lights are designed and checked to have a cut-off level and a dip that avoids dazzling oncoming drivers, whereas bike lights can be at any old angle and have no requirement for a cut-off or dip and certainly no testing - that was not a problem in the past, but with the superbright LED lights cyclists are using now, it is becoming a big problem.

Such lights on a motor vehicle would cause it to be immediately stopped as a hazard to other road users.

But temporarily blinding drivers is dangerous in itself and should be made against the law.

I have seen some joggers and walkers like that. Some have been using lit arm-bands that do show white to the front and red to the back.

I have seen similar on dogs' collars.

SteveW

[T i m]

<snip>

Yup.

<snip>

They can, depending on your position relative to them.

eg. On a narrow towpath then I agree it's very difficult not to look at them (even indirectly) because they are pointing straight at you.

On a std road and with you going in opposite directions (and the flashing lights generally being pretty directional LEDs), I believe the impact is less.

Minimising the dazzle (see previous threads here and elsewhere about over bright car lights).

Except, they would ALL be covered under the same Road Traffic Legislation about not causing discomfort to others.

Not necessarily.

I would suggest there are many instances out there where a mis-aligned legal wattage headlamp would be less 'uncomfortable' to a spectator than a supposedly 'approved' modern headlight, especially on the higher vehicles. An incandescent light is both a much broader source and generally a lower colour temperature than a LED / HID etc.

It is already?

And:

"1 Headlamp

(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road."

I think that's all they need ... eg, to be seen not to illuminate in any specific direction / level.

I've see such on some dogs and highly reflective piping on dog coats or the whole coats themselves.

Our terrier is mostly black and so it might be good if we got him something like that *in case* he got off the lead at night.

Cheers, T i m

[Marland]

I have a small one of those with a strong spring clamp mounted to it, comes into its own this time of year affixed to the supermarket trolley.

GH

[Marland]

The whole caboodle of a pair of Desilux horns off a British Rail Hymek Deisel , a control valve , reducing valve and a small 7lb Co2 bottle strapped to a rack to provide the pressure was far too heavy for regular use on a push bike but for a short period when the assembly was between cars it gave a few people a fright when I fixed them onto one.

GH

[Roger Hayter]

That seems incredibly over-optimistic to me - given the number of cars with dazzling headlights one sees at night. Or perhaps that is just local, but I have yet to see one "immediately stopped". Though type approval for bicycle headlamps for road use and permanent adjustment instructions printed on the lamp might be a good idea. We did have type approval, or at least a British Standard, once I think.

[T i m]

<snip>

I think the sense that there must be some upper limit to vehicle lighting when used on the public highway has endured for quite some time, well certainly until the advent of alternative light sources.

Few people really suffered / complained about the light level (from an personal impact POV) be it headlights on cars or cycles or any other form of lighting. The only thing I can really think of where I was ever put to any discomfort was people not dipping their main beams (or not doing so fast enough) or leaving a fog light on at night in good conditions. The fog light is a good example because that's 'just' a

21W incandescent lamp behind a lens, the same as the brake lights but much brighter than the normal 5w of a std continuous tail light.

A single fog light would really stand out against even a pair of taillights, often masking the tail lights completely.

I think part of this then is a mixture of the type of light and therefore how it's used (illuminating a coloured lens or not) plus the colour temperature and the directionality (LEDs are very directional) and the size of the light source. I have two designs of pocket LED torch. One has a single COB LED and the other a group of LEDs. The single COB offers about the same amount of light when the torches are shone on the ground but appears much brighter when you look into it.

The suitability of a light solution is a very 'human' thing as you can tell by what length people sometimes go to in their homes. To an outsider it's typically more about what's not right, rather than if it is ok. You might think 'it's a bit bright / dark in here' not, 'this lighting is perfectly adequate'. ;-)

Many people seem to consider some of the new cars have light levels that are much higher than are comfortable. You can't really say the same for 'cycles' as there is no requirement to conform to a specific standard, other than the one that *should* also prohibit some current car headlights.

Cheers, T i m