Bath to Shower conversion

The issue is not so much the thickness as the method used to brace it to provide a suitably rigid "shelf" (assuming they are fitted on the rim of the current bath). Another option might be to use taps fitting on a vertical surface. If you have a stud wall they could be fitted flush (I'd suggest Mermaid or similar wall panels); if a solid wall, you will need to make a "box" but that might create a shelf suitable for soap, shampoo, etc.

Low profile shower trays are no problem all the ones I have seen come with a wide outlet which more than copes with the most deluging of showers. Why you want to retain the bath taps is a puzzle as all I can see is that they will be a source of irritation and look unsightly. One thing you need to do when installing the tray is to bed it down on a dry mix of mortar so that it is fully supported.

Richard

Yes they are and I need to step out the wall at about that height to make space for other hidden pipe runs that would be murder to move. (the plumbers that ran away from this job had spotted this - I hadn't)

It is against solid brick external cavity wall on two sides.

That was my intention to step it out by about 10cm on a very solid frame but I am not sure what thickness of Perspex I will need and I'd really like to do the take out the bath and put back the step shelf to support the taps again in one go since the water will have to be off for the duration. Be a pain to find the piece I have made won't fit!

I am guessing that the bath is probably only ~6mm thick at that point but it is only a guess. It could be academic if I can't get one of the taps off (which seems to me a distinct possibility).

In article , Martin Brown writes

Must admit to not fully understanding what you are up to but this bit is easy. Do not attempt to remove the taps from the bath in situ, turn the water off and cut through the pipes in whatever way is easiest (electric saw at full reach if necessary), rip out the bath, tidy and cap the pipe ends and then remove the taps from the now freestanding bath.

Don't get the perspex plan, it's nasty floppy stuff, 10mm to make a rigid freestanding item or 6mm bonded to something rigid like ply would be my guess.

Like several others, I don't understand about keeping the bath taps. Are they going to be there simply as a "feature" without being operational - or will they be piped up for water to come out of them? If the latter, what will be under them to catch the water and drain it away?

As far as removing the bath and taps is concerned, someone has already suggested cutting through the pipes so that you can then remove the taps from the bath once it is away from the wall. I was going to suggest the same. As an alternative, is it fair to assume that the bath will be scrap. If so, why not cut it up in situ? It will be much easier to remove in pieces if access is tight, and you'll also be able to get at the taps with part of the bath removed.

You don't mention what type of shower you will be installing. Will it be an electric shower which heats the water from cold? If so you will need a dedicated high capacity electrical supply for it. Or will it use stored hot water, with a mixing valve to blend hot and cold? If so, hot and cold need to be at the same pressure - both taken from the header tank unless it's a pressurised hot water system. If fed only by gravity, will there be sufficient flow, or will you need a booster pump?

Finally, are you satisfied that you will be able to connect the shower waste to whatever the bath waste currently connects to - without any joists in the way?

I agree with Fred, perspex would not necessarily by my choice but if well supported as you describe then 6 mm would probably be OK (but beware of cracks if the taps are stiff).

In my experience it is seldom worth "economising" by re-using taps which are a few years old, unless you are sure they are top quality ones. Also, don't mess about trying to position the taps so that they fit the existing pipes. Cut the pipes short, fit the taps, connect taps up to new, over-long pipework, then cut and join new pipe to old, using compression fittings if space is tight, finally box in. Make the pipe access cover removable (accessible screws, not nails) even if you seal with silicone. And add service valves (in fact you could use the service valve to join the existing pipe to the new).

Not sure what the reason for keeping the tap, but would a shower panel with a built in bath filler be better?

For example...

The shower tray. Their purpose is for filling buckets of water.

I could be persuaded to just cap them if it made my life easier.

Thanks. It might well come to that. ISTR that was how the previous cast iron one was removed when this bath was installed in the 1970's.

There is already a Mira shower thermostatic gravity fed mixer that sits over the bath. The problem is that my mum had a fall and broke her pelvis and now lacks the mobility needed to get into the bath at all. It is at present wasted space (although we use it when staying there).

A real shower cubicle is now essential. I think she could probably manage a conventional shower tray but a low profile one would be better. I was wary of them flooding as there doesn't seem to be much of a lip. The other thing is any recommendations for models 700x1000 or 700x900 with good antislip provision on the base by design and also for the wall mounted perching stools that fold up when not in use.

I wasn't planning on changing the shower mixer or delivery head. They are already there, plumbed in and working. The object is to swap a bath shell for a low profile shower tray and enclosure. I can see how to do the enclosure but I really hate fiddly plumbing underneath things.

BTW how do you get a decent water seal on these big shower drain traps?

Fairly sure - it is up against an outside wall with about 12" of pipe.

I cut my bath up into pieces with an electric jigsaw. That way, I could also get it into the wheelie bin a bit at a time.

Under my bath the cheapskate builders only put in the full floorboards whe the feet of the bath went. I found this out when I needed to fit a new bath with the feet in different places!

Brian

The cold tap is useful for other purposes where it is.

I open to suggestions for a better engineering plastic. The old bath was acrylic but of unknown thickness at that point.

I'm not although they might well be to have lasted so long. The thing I worry about is disturbing an old installation risks other failures...

I am afraid I was planning to just mess about putting them back onto a board where they were originally located. It this approach inherently doomed to fail? TBH I think I stand a much better chance of undoing the holding nuts on the back of the tap assembly with a suitable plumber spanner than I do of cutting through the virtually inaccessible pipe.

Ah good I was hoping someone would ask the questions that were forming in my mind - well done Roger! ;-)

Well it seems like you are over complicating things - not to mention making for something which if it ends up in the shower enclosure is going to be a hazard - either walking into it, being extra stuff to clean etc, not to mention looking odd. Is there a routine need to fill buckets inside the house? Would an outside tap do? If there is no outside tap could one of the existing pipes be rerouted to provide one etc?

As it happens I have recent experience playing just this game - ageing aunt had a fall and ended up in hospital, and needed a more suitable bathroom to return to. Similar sounding storey - very narrow room (1100mm in this case) old cast iron bath, loo, sink, cupboards containing hot water cylinder etc all crammed in.

I would not worry about that - remember the shower screen provides a bit of extra lip (unless just using a curtain), and also the low profile trays have a high flow rate waste.

The one I used was rated for 32L/min:

The tray itself also had a reasonable slope built into it.

Once fitted it looks like:

(excuse the crap photo)

In the end I concluded that if you need a decent anti slip, you are better adding it as an extra mat - since the trays with "bobbled" bottoms are not particularly comfortable to stand in and not as easy to clean.

Regarding fold up stools etc, if you have an outside wall to fix to, these work very well:

You can fix them at a range of heights (although discussing the matter with the occupational therapist at the hospital, 18" is suggested)

The trick here is to prepare the waste connection before the tray goes in - so cut away floor boards etc as required, use solvent weld 40mm piping and get it so the trap is sat on the end of the pipe with a bit of movement available before you start.

Mix up some mortar mix as a base for the shower (only needs to be thin (say 10mm) if the floor is sound). Lay a couple of battens (or I normally use a couple of lengths of 15mm plastic pipe) across the mortar and plop the tray on the pipes. Get it into position and then pull the pipes out to drop it on the bed. Check it with a level and tap it about a bit until you are happy. Let the mortar go off before doing much more.

Easy, they have a wide flange with a flat rubber washer on the under side, and then a plastic top with a wide flange on the top which screws through the opening in the tray into the base part, trapping the tray between. I normally give a liberal coating of silicone sealant to both sides of the washer on the underside to that it will bond the bottom part of the trap to the tray. Add a bead of Fernox LS-X to the underside of the flange on the top part, and then screw it tightly into the base (you will need to cut a small bit of ply or similar to engage with the lugs on the inside of the top bit to turn it). That basically leaves a "cup" connected to a 40mm waste pipe under the shower. There is then an insert which just slots into the cup (can can be removed for cleaning), and a chrome effect cover that goes over it. The insert is what provides/retains the water trap.

I found that the original bath waste would have been slight too high (and in my case was a lead pipe!), so drilled a new hole* and fed a new waste out where I wanted it.

• 45mm diamond core bit in a drill

(if anyone is interested in a wiki page on doing that bathroom, let me know and I can post some more photos)

OK, so I think I understand. The current location of the bath taps will be inside the shower cubicle, and you want a way of supporting them - on their existing pipework - for filling buckets, after the bath is removed. The existing over-bath shower will also end up inside the cubicle, and your mother will continue to use it as before - the only difference being that she will be standing on the shower tray and not in the bath. Is that all correct?

So you need a small horizontal shelf, with holes for the taps, in the same position as the bit of the bath which currently supports the taps. The question is what material to use. In your position, I think I would be looking at a short length of 3" aluminium angle - long enough to cater for both tap holes - with the vertical part screwed to the wall, and the horizontal part supporting the taps. It would need painting, of course.

When your mother is standing in the shower tray, she's going to be several inches lower than when in the bath. Is she going to be able to reach the shower controls? The shower head might also be at the wrong height but, assuming that it moves up and down on a vertical column, you should be able to mount the column lower down if necessary.

Are you sure that it's *pure* gravity? I have a similar setup, except that there's a booster pump located under the bath. If your mother's is like that, you'll need to find a new home for the pump, and you'll need to re-jig the pipework.

Apart from the fact that she can no longer get into the bath. Yes. I am now thinking carefully about what John has said in an adjacent response that the taps would themselves form a potential hazard.

Useful suggestion. Thanks. I was thinking more of building up from the floor with a wooden frame behind tiled waterproof board.

To avoid having to move a lot of other pipework the shower is going to have to be raised about 3" off the existing floor level. I was planning on using 3x6 timber supports either side of the pipe run supporting 18mm marine ply with the tray bedded into cement on top. The pipes for the wash basin are along the central axis of the bath.

I am fairly sure but I will check. I can trace the pipes back to the loft with no signs of any pump. Thanks for your reply and also to John for detailed advice on the drain which is my biggest scary bit.

Thanks to all for the various suggestions. I am still at the planning stage but will have to choose a working solution and buy bits shortly.

I don't like plumbing - water can leak out all over the place.

Is raising the bathroom floor outside the shower an option, so that the shower tray is effectively recessed into the floor.

jgh

Well there is no shame in using pushfit fittings and plastic pipe if that is what it takes...

Slap service valves in anywhere that is handy - even if ultimately you don't expect to use them again - they can make doing the job with least interruption to the water supply elsewhere easy.

I understand, the devil is in the detail. If the pipes are indeed virtually inaccessible (e.g. being cast into concrete and/or flush against brickwork) it might well be easier to adjust your new "shelf" to be in exactly the same location as the edge of the edge of the bath. But with one of the "ring" type cutters you can cut copper pipe which is fairly close to a wall. When I first started doing plumbing, if I was (say) replacing a basin I would try to set up the tap fittings starting from the old pipework, and I could never get the positioning quite right. But, if you fit a new tail to the tap, with suitable bends or elbows to tuck the piping away neatly and then run that pile alongside the original supply, you can then cut each pipe to the right length and either solder in a straight coupler, or a compression fitting, or a service valve and sort out any misalignment at that point. It might be one extra fitting, but it's all about degrees of freedom. If you don't do it that way, you are almost bound to be putting some strain on the joints (either torsion, bending, or axial, or any combination).

Good advice (as always) from John. FWIW I use a lot of plastic pushfit these days where access is awkward and the pipes are concealed; but I have also learned by now how not to do it wrong!

Now where's that man with the hacksaw?