Bashing in cable clips

Hi all,
I've had terrible problems trying to knock cable clips cleanly into walls. I'm talking primarily 4mm^2 T&E cable and correspondingly sized clips here. Either they go in too easily (into mortar usually) and end up working loos e in short order or they go in half way and then seize and buckle (against brick/breezblock) and go all out of shape under further hammering. Seems like a really shit system unless used to clip cables tight against wo od, but if you know better, which no doubt many of you will, then kindly in form me of where I'm going wrong...
Thanks.
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On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 15:56:59 -0700, orion.osiris wrote:

http://uk.farnell.com/tower/55pp/pin-plug-bx100/dp/611920
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... are widely used by BT for all sorts of difficult surfaces.
If you're feeling really mean, drill a hole, hammer in a wooden plug, and nail into that.
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Frank Erskine

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Use pin plugs - a bit like small wall plugs you use for screws. Rather long winded but get the job done. Last time I looked, B&Q had them.
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On 03/08/2013 23:56, snipped-for-privacy@virgin.net wrote:

Either pin plugs, or get decent clips with masonry nails (Tower are not bad)
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snipped-for-privacy@virgin.net wrote:

primarily 4mm^2 T&E cable and correspondingly sized clips here. Either they go in
too easily (into mortar usually) and end up working loose in short order or they
go in half way and then seize and buckle (against brick/breezblock) and go all
out of shape under further hammering.

but if you know better, which no doubt many of you will, then kindly inform me of where I'm going wrong...

If the masonry is hard, use clips with proper masonry nails (Unifix) and don't bash! Tap tap tap tap quite gently for a long time -- lot of taps! It seems to break up the masonry better than a few bashes. There's pinplugs of course, but another way is to drill a very small diameter hole to a depth of perhaps 4 or 5mm, and drive the nail into that so it only has to drive in beyond the hole depth. I don't know why but that seems to work quite often. However you do it, put a line up and make your holes/fit your pinplugs/whatever before you start to fix the cable.
Bill
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+1
Another point - some bricklayers put very little mortar into perps (vertical joints) - often just a thin pointing layer. If you're hammering clips into the mortar, hammer into the beds (horizontal joint runs).
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Andrew Gabriel
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wrote:

+ 1 (Discovered that just a few weeks ago.)
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Peter Johnson wrote:

Discovered it about 1968! That's when we stopped using Hiatts lead headed nails.
Bill
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Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen. I'm most persuaded by Frank's suggestion. One can buy wooden dowel rods sev eral meters long from the sheds for peanuts. It wouldn't take 2 minutes to cut these down to the right lengths (say 15mm). Seems like a good idea. If the dowel is a snug fit within the hole you drill in the wall,then banging in a nail from a cable clip should expand it into an interference fit which with any luck should be as secure as it gets.
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It's a lot more work than using the correct pin plugs. Which would cost even less than dowel.
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On Sunday, 4 August 2013 16:44:31 UTC+2, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Maybe. But I've already got a dowel on site as it were. I use it as a dipstick for checking the oil level in my heating oil tank. A dozen times 15mm wouldn't be missed off it!
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Can't see the point in drilling much larger holes than needed just so you can use dowel. Which is unlikely to give as good a fixing as the plugs.
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On Sunday, 4 August 2013 19:49:18 UTC+2, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Much larger?? They'll only be 10mm dia.
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On 04/08/2013 19:27, snipped-for-privacy@virgin.net wrote:

All depends on how you think about things.
10mm is only 5mm bigger than 5mm - and 5mm is quite small. So not very much bigger.
10mm is twice the diameter that 5mm is. So very much bigger. Twice the size.
2.5mm radius hole has an area of about 19.63 square mm. A 5mm radius hole has an area of about 78.54 square mm. So very very much bigger. Four times the size.
None of them are anywhere near Crossrail size. So absolutely pifflingly tiny.
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snipped-for-privacy@virgin.net writes

10mm? That's nearly 1/2"!
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snipped-for-privacy@virgin.net wrote:

That's 4 times the area.
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The correct plugs are IIRC 4mm. A very big difference for drilling into brick with perhaps an ordinary cordless drill.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Experience says that you need more than a thin nail to get the wood tight enough. Dowel's OK for screws but not masonry nails. The nails WILL come loose after a while. Trust me.
Bill
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On Sunday, 4 August 2013 21:05:37 UTC+2, Bill Wright wrote:

OK, well I'll experiment a bit and see which is best....
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